The Science Behind Chewy Cookies with Bread Flour

[ShuBunny]

Brown crust. No matter how fine and perfect the crumb they still have all that dry brown crust on the outside. Yet my sister text me to rave about how moist and flavorful these cakes were. With a coated bundt pan you have no choice but using a simple syrup. I used lavender verbena lemon simple syrup as soon as I pulled the tray out of the oven. Then again about 30 minutes later. Then let the cake age minimum of 24 hrs before delivering.

Wow, I wouldn't have thought of aging the cake on purpose. But I've heard most pound cakes/ bundt cakes taste better on the second day.

We covet Parrish because that light uncoated metal does not over brown the cake.

I'll bear Parrish Magic loose bottom pans in mind - but that looks like a future investment!
I picked up a couple of nordic ware naturals eventually. They were selling in discounted sets. So I ended up series of round pans, one 8x8 square and my quarter & eighth sheets. Their muffin tray was weird, the cups were too close - so I bought USA Pans muffin pans.

My one gripe about nordic ware is the curves at the four corners of the sheets & 8x8 pans. Which looks like i am cutting corners.

when a cake is sliced and plated you should not see any brown crust lines between the icing and the cake. You want pure clean edge of cake next to a thin layer of icing.

#cakegoals!

@ShuBunny curious about the texture of the brownies, how fudgy and chewy was it? Could possibly still be a good baseline recipe with experimenting with dropping the sugar.

take what i say with a teaspoon of salt! because I'm a super beginner baker and I made it with a hand mixer (only mixer i had then).
I honestly felt it was neither chewy and fudgey enough, taste was okay though. Everyone else wiped it clean.
Perhaps try both Stella Park and KAF and work off from the one you prefer?

Personally, I like those mutant cakey/creamy/slightly fudgey brownies.

When I tackle brownies again, I'll try norcal's and the earlier ones I mentioned.

These are terrible pics. stella park

KAF ultimate brownie. wish i had a crumb shot.

 

[ShuBunny]

Argh, what happens if you left your freshly bake cookies on the sheet for 15 mins instead of transferring to the cooling rack after 1 min.

I know it gets soft - but can I remedy it by rebaking it for another 2mins at 375F? it’s a for sale cookie. And I have the exact amount of dough left for the pre ordered cookie

Edit:
After baking all the orders. I was wondering why the cookies look beautifully spread but slightly undercooked. Turns out I baked every baked at a lower temperature by mistake. Arggggghhhhh. Good grief.

I re-baked every cookie at a third of my bake time, at 375f and watched and sniffed for doneness. Cookies have a even browned base and still slightly under baked centre on top.

I don’t even have an extra to cut up to check. This is an paid for order from a friend who has tried a number of my bakes. And delivery is in 6 hours time. So remaking the cookie with the overnight chill is not possible. I’m incredibly pissed with myself.

Is there any way for salvaging in this situation or would you just postpone on delivering the order?
Would love to hear opinions.

 

[Norcalbaker59]

Argh, what happens if you left your freshly bake cookies on the sheet for 15 mins instead of transferring to the cooling rack after 1 min.

I know it gets soft - but can I remedy it by rebaking it for another 2mins at 375F? it’s a for sale cookie. And I have the exact amount of dough left for the pre ordered cookie

Edit:
After baking all the orders. I was wondering why the cookies look beautifully spread but slightly undercooked. Turns out I baked every baked at a lower temperature by mistake. Arggggghhhhh. Good grief.

I re-baked every cookie at a third of my bake time, at 375f and watched and sniffed for doneness. Cookies have a even browned base and still slightly under baked centre on top.

I don’t even have an extra to cut up to check. This is an paid for order from a friend who has tried a number of my bakes. And delivery is in 6 hours time. So remaking the cookie with the overnight chill is not possible. I’m incredibly pissed with myself.

Is there any way for salvaging in this situation or would you just postpone on delivering the order?
Would love to hear opinions.

oh I’m sorry I forgot to tell you yes you cannot leave a cookie on a baking sheet. As soon as it sets, you need to transfer it to a cooling rack. Moisture trapped between the parchment paper and cookie will cause it to soften.

Also always elevate your cooling rack. I put a coffee mug under each corner of the rack to bring the rack at least 4 inches from the counter to allow for air circulation. No matter what you are cooling you should elevate your cooling rack.

I’ve actually done a double baked chocolate chip cookie at 375°F. it will caramelize the cookie a little bit more. It is definitely a good cookie. Just different.

it is extremely important when you bake as a business that you never deviate from your bakers percentages, your mixing method, and your baking procedures. Baking is a chemical reaction to time and temperature. You have to think of temperature as an ingredient that is being added multiple times throughout the baking process.

Temperature is not just heat. But temperature is also cold. You add temperature when you mix (temperature of ingredients, friction temperature); you add temperature when you chill (adding a cold ingredient such as ice water to pie dough, refrigerating, removing from the oven; you add temperature when you heat (adding water ingredient such as scaled milk, proofing in a warm environment, baking in the oven).

Until your product is ready to package, you are still baking, still adding time and temperature. So this is why it is very important that you never deviate from your routine.

No one can tell you what to do, to put off delivery and make a new batch or not. That is a decision you will have to make as the business owner.

 

[Norcalbaker59]

Wow, I wouldn't have thought of aging the cake on purpose. But I've heard most pound cakes/ bundt cakes taste better on the second day.


I'll bear Parrish Magic loose bottom pans in mind - but that looks like a future investment!
I picked up a couple of nordic ware naturals eventually. They were selling in discounted sets. So I ended up series of round pans, one 8x8 square and my quarter & eighth sheets. Their muffin tray was weird, the cups were too close - so I bought USA Pans muffin pans.

My one gripe about nordic ware is the curves at the four corners of the sheets & 8x8 pans. Which looks like i am cutting corners.


#cakegoals!


take what i say with a teaspoon of salt! because I'm a super beginner baker and I made it with a hand mixer (only mixer i had then).
I honestly felt it was neither chewy and fudgey enough, taste was okay though. Everyone else wiped it clean.
Perhaps try both Stella Park and KAF and work off from the one you prefer?

Personally, I like those mutant cakey/creamy/slightly fudgey brownies.

When I tackle brownies again, I'll try norcal's and the earlier ones I mentioned.

These are terrible pics. stella park
View attachment 3756

KAF ultimate brownie. wish i had a crumb shot.
View attachment 3757

i’m going to get back to you on this post. I’m just super busy today so I don’t have time. But I do want to respond. The brownie does look!!!

 

[Norcalbaker59]

Wow, I wouldn't have thought of aging the cake on purpose. But I've heard most pound cakes/ bundt cakes taste better on the second day.


I'll bear Parrish Magic loose bottom pans in mind - but that looks like a future investment!
I picked up a couple of nordic ware naturals eventually. They were selling in discounted sets. So I ended up series of round pans, one 8x8 square and my quarter & eighth sheets. Their muffin tray was weird, the cups were too close - so I bought USA Pans muffin pans.

My one gripe about nordic ware is the curves at the four corners of the sheets & 8x8 pans. Which looks like i am cutting corners.


#cakegoals!


take what i say with a teaspoon of salt! because I'm a super beginner baker and I made it with a hand mixer (only mixer i had then).
I honestly felt it was neither chewy and fudgey enough, taste was okay though. Everyone else wiped it clean.
Perhaps try both Stella Park and KAF and work off from the one you prefer?

Personally, I like those mutant cakey/creamy/slightly fudgey brownies.

When I tackle brownies again, I'll try norcal's and the earlier ones I mentioned.

These are terrible pics. stella park
View attachment 3756

KAF ultimate brownie. wish i had a crumb shot.
View attachment 3757

Your Stella Parks brownie looks really good. Did anyone mention how sweet it is? I got a lot of feedback as to how rich and sugary that brownie is. That one is definitely a sugar bomb.

i’ve never tried the King Arthur flour. How did that one turn out taste wise?

USA pans is a heavy gauge aluminized steel coated with DuraShield; the bakeware conducts heat very intensity causing over browning and baking. Their pie tins are fine because a nice brown crust is desirable for pie, but not for cake. The muffin tin may cause cupcakes and muffins to form a hard crust, so decrease the temperature. I use a Chicago Metallic Commercial II uncoated muffin tin. Unfortunately the company that owns DuraShield coating owns USA pans and Chicago Metallic. Bundy Baking Solutions totally destroyed the Chicago Metallic commercial line with DursShield. It’s essentially a USA line, only with scaled to commercial specs.



A look at Parrish Magic Pan cake. The only place you can buy this pan is from a specialty cake supply store or a restaurant supply store. I would not buy these on Amazon because they are most likely counterfeits. Almost everything on Amazon or counterfeits. Amazon has such a counterfeit problem that they had to notify their shareholders of their counterfeit problem. Amazon also without notice terminated purchases from thousands of suppliers because they had incurred millions of dollars in losses due to counterfeits. Amazon’s return policy is such they refund for defective products, and that includes for counterfeits. Reason Amazon had to finally notify shareholders of The counterfeit problem was the millions in losses.

Federal government estimates two of every five products purchased online are counterfeits. Regardless of the product, purchase directly from the manufacture when possible; otherwise contact the manufacturer for an authorized dealer.

 

[ShuBunny]

Hi @Norcalbaker59 ,

The parrish line magic pans are good looking.
Someday I will make a splurge purchase and buy their loose bottom pans, and a couple of gobels.

I did get a 4-inch parrish pan off amazon some time back when I could barely bake, and here's the side by side of same batter and same batch. Nordic ware is shorter in height, 2.5inch vs the others 3 inch.

Temp is probably too high! Not baking strips used. And all sorts of beginner's mistakes!
This is just to show the effects of the pans.

From left to right:
unbranded anodized aluminum - parrish magic line - nordicware naturals

About the brownies:

Stella park brownies were too sweet to me, but I must have reduced the sugar by 10-15% when I made it. Even then, still tasted sweet.
In the photo, I served it from the freezer. The glazed surface is likely the condensation.

I much preferred the KAF taste. Found the taste and texture much to my preference. less cloying. but the surface is not as smooth or shiny as i would like.

 

[Norcalbaker59]

Hi @Norcalbaker59 ,

The parrish line magic pans are good looking.
Someday I will make a splurge purchase and buy their loose bottom pans, and a couple of gobels.

I did get a 4-inch parrish pan off amazon some time back when I could barely bake, and here's the side by side of same batter and same batch. Nordic ware is shorter in height, 2.5inch vs the others 3 inch.

Temp is probably too high! Not baking strips used. And all sorts of beginner's mistakes!
This is just to show the effects of the pans.

From left to right:
unbranded anodized aluminum - parrish magic line - nordicware naturals
View attachment 3789

About the brownies:

Stella park brownies were too sweet to me, but I must have reduced the sugar by 10-15% when I made it. Even then, still tasted sweet.
In the photo, I served it from the freezer. The glazed surface is likely the condensation.

I much preferred the KAF taste. Found the taste and texture much to my preference. less cloying. but the surface is not as smooth or shiny as i would like.

When you bake in a deep pan (more than 2“) use a heating core. There’s so much volume, you have to heat the batter from the center out in order to reduce the bake time. Otherwise the cake over bakes. Also when your cake larger than a 10“ cake

Since all the cakes expanded significantly above the rim, they probably had too much batter. Don’t feel bad though, it’s always hard to judge with a really small diameter pan.


It takes a while to collect all of your baking tools and supplies. I’ve been baking so long I have all my tools. I’m still tempted to buy things now and then. I go into the restaurant supply store and still fight the urge. Now I buy for other people. My niece asked me for a recipe last week. They recently moved to a new state, to a small community. So not very many options for grocery stores. So I am sending her a box of almonds, pecans, macadamia nuts, dried sour cherries, Guittard, Callebaut, and Valrhona dark and white chocolates. My brother also roasted them some coffee. And since she’ll be making cookies, I purchased her a couple of good cookie dishers.

 

[ShuBunny]

Learnt something new!

I’ll look out for heating cores. And I’m read your reply to Cahoot about how you use a jelly pan and cake rings for layer cakes. Something that I will wish to try out sooner than later!

 

[Cahoot]

Learnt something new!

I’ll look out for heating cores. And I’m read your reply to Cahoot about how you use a jelly pan and cake rings for layer cakes. Something that I will wish to try out sooner than later!

Let us know how it goes! I'm also thinking of trying that out, once I've ironed out a solid cake formula for the basic types and tested them in regular cake pans. I've found that three-layer cakes is the sweet spot for not too short but also not so much that it takes my family forever to finish, but I only have two each 8" and 9" cake pans.

I've read from Stella Parks that as long as you cream the leaveners with the butter, they'll be coated in fat and be protected from activating too soon so it's okay to let the batter rest for a bit, but even then it'll be at least 45 minutes of baking + 15 minutes of cooling before I can use a reuse one of the pans to bake the third layer, so just baking it as a sheet and cutting out the layers would be so much more convenient.

 

[ShuBunny]

Let us know how it goes! I'm also thinking of trying that out, once I've ironed out a solid cake formula for the basic types and tested them in regular cake pans. I've found that three-layer cakes is the sweet spot for not too short but also not so much that it takes my family forever to finish, but I only have two each 8" and 9" cake pans.

I've read from Stella Parks that as long as you cream the leaveners with the butter, they'll be coated in fat and be protected from activating too soon so it's okay to let the batter rest for a bit, but even then it'll be at least 45 minutes of baking + 15 minutes of cooling before I can use a reuse one of the pans to bake the third layer, so just baking it as a sheet and cutting out the layers would be so much more convenient.

You will probably hit the sheet cake ball before I do!
I was looking for 4" cake rings today. my neighbours are sick of cookies and shortbread. I'm not sure how much cake they can stomach.
Making three-layer 4" cakes might coax them into eating some.

My project list

1. muffin
2. brownies
3. THAT bundt cake
4. chiffon cake
5. 3-layer cake

And I'm still mucking around with my chocolate and the shortbread.

 

[Norcalbaker59]

You will probably hit the sheet cake ball before I do!
I was looking for 4" cake rings today. my neighbours are sick of cookies and shortbread. I'm not sure how much cake they can stomach.
Making three-layer 4" cakes might coax them into eating some.

My project list

1. muffin
2. brownies
3. THAT bundt cake
4. chiffon cake
5. 3-layer cake

And I'm still mucking around with my chocolate and the shortbread.

I have some ideas for you. I think you do some interesting things that will appeal to your market. put a new twist on a few of the same products. I’ll send you an email.

 

[ShuBunny]

I have some ideas for you. I think you do some interesting things that will appeal to your market. put a new twist on a few of the same products. I’ll send you an email.

Thank you very much! @Norcalbaker59

And it’s been a while since we talked about creaming. Will like your opinion.

Creaming 250g of butter in a 4.6L stand mixer. I’m getting under the DDT. Creaming between 4-4.5 mins.
My mixer speed settings are Minimum, 1, 2 ...., 6 and Max.
I cream between Minimum - 2.

Does this look like I am overcreaming or undercreaming?

I emulsify at speeds 2-4 for 1 minute.
The egg does not seem to ‘catch on’ to the paddle at lower speeds.

Does the emulsion looks homogenous enough? Or over beatened?

Emulsifying with cold egg

Flour at for 30 secs - 1min at minimum speed.

Final DDT after flour and mix in are added.

 

[Norcalbaker59]

@ShuBunny butter could have gone a bit longer. Your final dough temperature is 2° below your target, so well within range. Slightly under creaming is better than over creaming. Under creaming will give you a tighter dough. So you will have a couple less cookies. But over creaming well cause your dough to be thinner, your cookies to spread flatter in baking. The bite of the cookie will change. So over creaming will definitely change the texture and look of the cookie. If anything it is better to error on the side of under creaming.

A set mise en place is important.

• Night before bake
  • read through formula; note tools and equip needed
  • set up mixer with attachment; place additional req attachment in clean bowl next to mixer
  • set out baking sheets/pans w/ parchment paper (don’t grease yet)
  • set out tools
• 1.5 hours before mixing
  • prepare baking sheets
• 1 hour before mixing scale all ingredients
• Bring ingredients to correct temperature
  • 40 min before mixing place ingredients that aren’t normally chilled like flour in refrigerator​
  • 30 min before preheat oven​
  • 20 min before mixing remove refrigerated ingredients like butter from refrigerator​
  • 5 min before mix arrange ingredients in order of mixing​

Always know how long you are chilling your ingredients. And be consistent batch to batch. And remember that your refrigerator will cause the flour to absorb moisture so you can’t just store your flour in the refrigerator. you live in a high humidity climate. So you should store your flour in a airtight container.

Ditto for your sugar.

I believe you’re already using a timer and tracking how long you are creamy your butter and sugar. Which is good because you need to be consistent with how long you are creaming everything.

 

[panda]

Ingredients
100 g of cold butter
1 cup of wheat flour
1/2 teaspoon baking powder
pinch of salt
4 tablespoons of brown sugar
80 g of white sugar
2 teaspoons of vanilla extract
1 large egg
150 g of dark chocolate

1. Place all ingredients, except chocolate, in a bowl and knead quickly with your hands until smooth. Make quite large balls of it and place them on a baking tray covered with baking paper. Flatten with your hand. Cut the chocolate into smaller pieces and then press them into the biscuits. Bake at 180 degrees C for about 15 minutes until golden brown. Baked remove and cool a moment on the baking tray. Then gently transfer it to a wire rack and allow it to cool completely. Store in a tightly closed container. Enjoy your meal!

 

[SHA]

Do the Parrish cake pans with removeable bottoms have the same weight as the regular Parrish cake pans ?

 

[Norcalbaker59]

Do the Parrish cake pans with removeable bottoms have the same weight as the regular Parrish cake pans ?

By weight I assume you are referring to the thickness of the metal. Yes. Parrish makes a high quality cake pan. They are the preferred pan by wedding cake bakers because the don’t over brown/bake (when the baker bakes at the correct temperature and removes the cake when it’s done instead of over baking).

 

[Brasilmom]

You got really good color in the cookie. Demerara sugar is not brown sugar. It is a partially refined sugar. Brown sugar is refined sugar with molasses added back in afterward. So Demerara is much drier than brown sugar.

Try this. The sugar is still 95%, but a difference combination. It also has semi sweet chocolate instead of milk chocolate, so not as sweet. Also less chocolate.



210g unsalted butter 65°F (use a high fat butter like Pluga) See Stella Parks‘ article on proper way to cream butter
112g granulated cane sugar
112g light brown cane sugar
6g kosher salt
4g baking soda

42g invert sugar (light corn syrup, golden syrup, OR plain molasses, not blackstrap)
100g whole eggs

280g unbleached flour approx 11.5% protein (example King Arthur flour brand)
310g semi sweet chocolate chips (try Guittard or Ghirardelli)

Paddle attachment on stand mixer

Cut butter into large cubes. Place butter, granulated and light brown cane sugars in bowl of mixer. Beat on medium low (4 on KitchenAid) for 2 minutes. Scrape sides and bottom of bowl. Continue beating on medium high (6 on KitchenAid) for 2.5 minutes.

Scrape sides and bottom of bowl. Add invert sugar and beat 20 seconds. Add half of egg, beat until incorporated. Scrape bowl. Add remainder of egg, beat until incorporated.

Add flour and mix until just barely incorporated. Add chocolate and mix until just distributed.

Transfer to a clean bowl. Cover and chill minimum 1 hr up to overnight.

Bake

For a bakery size cookie, portion dough into 70g ball. For a homemade size cookie, portion dough into 45g dough ball. Place dough ball in freezer for 20 min before baking.

Preheat oven 350°F for at least 25 minutes Set up cooling rack by placing coffee mugs on four corners to elevate. You want air to circulate under a cooling rack.

Line a baking sheet with parchment paper. Place frozen dough balls on tray; allow space for spreading. the 70g dough ball will make a 4” cookie; the 45g dough ball will make a 3” cookie.

Bake in the center of the oven, rotating mid way through baking. 70g bake approximately 16 min total; 45g bakes approximately 12 min total. Bake time will vary depending on your oven.

Cool on baking sheet 1 min, then remove to cooling rack to cool completely.


I prefer light brown sugar to dark brown sugar.

I have read the replies on this thread and learned a lot already. I bake without eggs, which changes things a bit. I tired a very similar version of this recipe and it turned out very well. However, I thought the dough was a bit too soft, maybe I added too much buttermilk. I am going to give it another go and reduce the buttermilk percentage to get a firmer dough. 35% of buttermilk in lieu of eggs is too much, do you have any thoughts or suggestions in this case? Thank you

 

[Brasilmom]

Ok, so I made a batch modifying the percentage of liquid (in this case buttermilk). The cookies turned out awesome. I made at 45g, but will increase them to 50g. I baked just 6 of them to see how they turned out. My husband, a chocolate lover, said that I can even back off a bit on the chocolate. Those are rich cookies.