The Science Behind Chewy Cookies with Bread Flour

[Emmie]

I agree with Norcalbaker, #5 looks picture perfect with that uniformly cracked top. And I'll also corroborate that the key to decreasing sweetness is using darker chocolates; 70% is definitely a good place to start. You can also try increasing the salt in the dough by a bit or sprinkling a small amount of flaky sea salt on the cookies before or after baking. I've no idea how people eat chocolate chip cookies with milk chocolate - that's just overwhelmingly sweet even for me, and I have a high tolerance for sweetness.

That’s a good idea! And the salt sprinkling is great as I have a toddler who obviously can’t have too much salt so it’s an easy change. I only have sea salt flakes at home and just grind it in a pestle and mortar if I need fine for bread or something.

 

[Emmie]

You don’t want to go too low so as not to undermine the structure of the dough, but you can definitely lower it. My family is Japanese, so our family and friends don’t eat super sweet desserts. When I bake for others, I have to increase the sugar back to the American palate.

Back in 2013 I did blind taste test with chocolate chip cookies. Americans talk about their love of chocolate, but I found they could not handle good quality chocolate like Valrhona 70%. The children of course preferred the sweeter cookies. They preferred the common grocery store Nestle milk chocolate chip. The adults liked Ghirardelli, an American dark semi sweet chocolate chip. The Callebaut 60% dark chocolate in a block that I chopped came in second place with the adults. And everyone hands down rejected the French Valrhona 70% dark chocolate callets. I prefer the Valrhona callets in my cookies. I love the rich not to sweet chocolate, and the way the chopped chunks creates puddles on melted chocolate thoughout the cookie.


I miss the days of eating gluten. The shortbread and speculaas were my type of cookie. I’ve made gluten free shortbread, but it’s not the same.

No, I can imagine it’s not the same at all!

I do find American chocolate quite acidic, actually. Swiss and Belgian chocolate can be found in any grocery or off-licence (liquor store?) here. And British chocolate is pretty nice with lots of 70% brands. Grocery stores even do their own-label Swiss, 70%, etc. chocolate. I have a good friend in NYC and I always bring her a parcel of chocolate and biscuits when I come over. Chocolate Hobnobs are her absolute favourite, she hides them from her husband.

 

[Norcalbaker59]

No, I can imagine it’s not the same at all!

I do find American chocolate quite acidic, actually. Swiss and Belgian chocolate can be found in any grocery or off-licence (liquor store?) here. And British chocolate is pretty nice with lots of 70% brands. Grocery stores even do their own-label Swiss, 70%, etc. chocolate. I have a good friend in NYC and I always bring her a parcel of chocolate and biscuits when I come over. Chocolate Hobnobs are her absolute favourite, she hides them from her husband.

Your sense of taste is good. American chocolate is off. European chocolate is far superior to American chocolate because European laws are more stringent in the levels of cocoa solids and cocoa butter in their chocolate than american chocolate. Cheap American milk chocolate also has the emulsifier polyglycerol polyricinoleate (PGPR) which is not used in Europe. Many people believe it is the reason american milk chocolate has an offensive taste. Even as a child, I always choose dark chocolate over milk chocolate. All my favorite childhood candy bars were dark chocolate. Milk chocolate just never tasted like what I expect my chocolate to taste like.

In the past 10 yrs a lot of artisan chocolatier have brought artisan american chocolate quality up to European standards. One american company, Guittard, was founded years ago by a Frenchman, so their chocolate has always been pretty decent. I use their chocolate for dipping. But when I want good chocolate for baking, I usually reach for European brands. I don’t use top artisan chocolate in baking because I feel it is a waste of really fine chocolate. IMO fine chocolate should be eaten, not baked and ruined by 325° (160°C) + temperatures.

 

[Emmie]

Your sense of taste is good. American chocolate is off. European chocolate is far superior to American chocolate because European laws are more stringent in the levels of cocoa solids and cocoa butter in their chocolate than american chocolate. Cheap American milk chocolate also has the emulsifier polyglycerol polyricinoleate (PGPR) which is not used in Europe. Many people believe it is the reason american milk chocolate has an offensive taste. Even as a child, I always choose dark chocolate over milk chocolate. All my favorite childhood candy bars were dark chocolate. Milk chocolate just never tasted like what I expect my chocolate to taste like.

In the past 10 yrs a lot of artisan chocolatier have brought artisan american chocolate quality up to European standards. One american company, Guittard, was founded years ago by a Frenchman, so their chocolate has always been pretty decent. I use their chocolate for dipping. But when I want good chocolate for baking, I usually reach for European brands. I don’t use top artisan chocolate in baking because I feel it is a waste of really fine chocolate. IMO fine chocolate should be eaten, not baked and ruined by 325° (160°C) + temperatures.

Haha, absolutely! And the artisan bars are often works of art in themselves - it would be criminal to melt them down. We have a big chain called Hotel Chocolat found in most major towns, so not exactly exclusive, but they do lots of lovely bars and stock what we sometimes call darkmilk as standard, alongside white, ruby, milk and ‘plain’ as we call our dark chocolate. ‘Plain’ is such a British way to describe it, I’m surprised we don’t call milk chocolate ‘fancy’!

 

[Norcalbaker59]

Haha, absolutely! And the artisan bars are often works of art in themselves - it would be criminal to melt them down. We have a big chain called Hotel Chocolat found in most major towns, so not exactly exclusive, but they do lots of lovely bars and stock what we sometimes call darkmilk as standard, alongside white, ruby, milk and ‘plain’ as we call our dark chocolate. ‘Plain’ is such a British way to describe it, I’m surprised we don’t call milk chocolate ‘fancy’!

Chocolate is such a competitive business, especially in Europe. The industry only recognizes three types of chocolates: dark, milk, and white. When Valrhona introduced Dulcey they tried to market it as a “fourth chocolate”. Of course, because everything is proprietary, they would not say what variety of cocoa bean. But as soon as chocolatiers got hold of it, they called Valrhona out. It was just flavored chocolate.

Then Callebaut announced Ruby, saying it is a real chocolate, from real “ruby” cocoa beans. It debuted in 2017 at a trade show in Shanghai, but it wasn’t available for sale. In 2018 Callebaut finally made it available in KitKat bars Japan, then later that year ruby was made available in Europe. We couldn’t get ruby the US until 2019. Now it is readily available through trade sources. It’s definitely “chocolate”; in a category like milk chocolate in that it is made from cocoa solids, cocoa butter, dairy, and sugar. But the color is just a sleight of hand trick. Cocoa beans come in a range of hues. This is nothing new. They just experimented with roasting to preserve the color. And in the process, it changes the flavor of the cocoa solids as well. It is not that popular in the US, but it is very popular in Asia. My brother bought a lot of it for me to do some product development since the main goal of the coffee business is sales to Japan. It has a sour tanginess. But it is definitely on the sweet side.

 

[ShuBunny]

Yup, it's very much like a white chocolate with berries tasting thing. I’m not a fan of the taste. Don’t hate it; but I don’t crave it. It’s makes a very pretty colour and plays off v day’s themes though.

 

[Norcalbaker59]

Yup, it's very much like a white chocolate with berries tasting thing. I’m not a fan of the taste. Don’t hate it; but I don’t crave it. It’s makes a very pretty colour and plays off v day’s themes though.

Yes, it isn’t a favorite. I think it works best as a garnish or dipping chocolate. I’ve tried it as a bar, and it is definitely not a chocolate that works well as the main attraction.

 

[ShuBunny]

Hi @Norcalbaker59,

Is there a cookie recipe book that you could recommend? Really had fun with the chocolate chip cookie. Preferably with the measurements in metric.
I’m planning to get suas’ ABAP later in the year - does it have a good number of cookie recipes?

Thanks in advance!

 

[Norcalbaker59]

Hi @Norcalbaker59,

Is there a cookie recipe book that you could recommend? Really had fun with the chocolate chip cookie. Preferably with the measurements in metric.
I’m planning to get suas’ ABAP later in the year - does it have a good number of cookie recipes?

Thanks in advance!

The only book recommendations I make are Jeffery Hamelman’s Bread book and Michel Saus’ Advance Bread and Pastry textbook because the average recipe books are designed for failure. Even if an author provides metric weight, if which few do, they fail to provide the most significant information: baker’s percentages; scale, flour specifications; fat specifications; sugar specifications; ingredient temperatures; dough and batter temperatures; type of metal for the bakeware. It is simply not enough to list ingredients, order of mixing instructions, and oven temperature. And unfortunately that is all recipe books do. When necessary information is omitted, the only possible outcome is failure.

 

[ShuBunny]

Thanks @Norcalbaker59 this makes sense, considering the hand holding that I needed.

Definitely looking fwd to Michel suas book ))

 

[ShuBunny]

I may never get the crinkles - but still pushing this recipe a little more. I’m 90% happy with this.

Now to take a break from this and see if my creaming has improved enough to tackle a cake.

 

[ShuBunny]

Hi @Norcalbaker59,

I have a sugar and creaming question, if caster sugar which is finer, creams more easily with butter - what’s the reason to use granulated sugar during creaming?

Thanks !

 

[Norcalbaker59]

Hi @Norcalbaker59,

I have a sugar and creaming question, if caster sugar which is finer, creams more easily with butter - what’s the reason to use granulated sugar during creaming?

Thanks !

Caster sugar does not create more easily into butter. Caster sugar dissolves faster than granulated sugar because it is finer. Caster sugar is used when you want a fine crumb, like with a cake. Or when you are making Italian meringue, caramel, or any type of sugar syrup and you want the sugar to dissolve quickly. It has nothing to do with creaming.

Did I explain to that creaming butter and sugar is not mixing two ingredients, but is a form of leavening. Mechanical leavening. as the blades of the mixer turn through the butter and the sugar, the sugar crystals create slash pockets in the butter. The butter will remain pliable to certain temperature. When the water in the batter/dough turns to steam and the chemical leavening is activated, the bubbles that are created get trapped in the pockets, and expand the butter. As the butter heats, the emulsion breaks; the water turns to steam.

Sugar will have started to dissolved when liquid is added during mixing because sugar is hygroscopic, so it will absorb any free in the batter/dough. But the steam will hasten the process of any undissolved sugar. It’s just the finer the sugar, the faster it dissolves.

 

[ShuBunny]

Hi @Norcalbaker59,

Yes you have explained about the mechanical leavening process. I’m still digesting what I have learnt.

Is it correct to say that granulated sugar will make bigger air pockets because it is bigger in size; and produce a better leavening effect?

Or, if faced with a hot kitchen, using caster sugar which dissolves faster, will mean the correct creaming stage reached earlier, and likely at DDT.

I’m noting that caster sugar is better for fine crumb cakes and for syrups, caramels etc.

Is there a guideline for when to use granulated sugar?

Thanks a lot!

 

[Norcalbaker59]

Hi @Norcalbaker59,

Yes you have explained about the mechanical leavening process. I’m still digesting what I have learnt.

Is it correct to say that granulated sugar will make bigger air pockets because it is bigger in size; and produce a better leavening effect?

Or, if faced with a hot kitchen, using caster sugar which dissolves faster, will mean the correct creaming stage reached earlier, and likely at DDT.

I’m noting that caster sugar is better for fine crumb cakes and for syrups, caramels etc.

Is there a guideline for when to use granulated sugar?

Thanks a lot!

I wouldn’t say that caster sugar dissolves faster, so reaches the correct creaming stage earlier in a warmer kitchen.

Rather in a hot kitchen there is increased chance of butter reaching the melting point of 90°F-95°F (32°C-35°C) just from standard friction heat. That in turn increases the risk of failed creaming.

Caster sugar has smaller crystals, so when exposed to agitation in mixing and the water from butter, caster sugar will dissolve faster than granulated sugar. If butter plasticity is lost, and caster sugar crystals dissolve then not much leavening will occur.

When you use your stand mixer, mix a full batch of batter or dough. Small portions will generate too much friction heat as a small portion of butter and sugar will not create enough resistance against the motor and paddle. Chill the bowl and paddle attachment.

When making a small batch of dough or batter use your hand mixer to prevent over heating the butter.

You can use granulated sugar in all applications. Caster sugar is simply a preference not a requirement. And if you have a food processor, you can make baker’s sugar. it won’t be as fine as caster sugar, but close enough. Just grind 300 - 400g granulated sugar in a food processor for about 60 seconds. Cover the food processor with a kitchen towel as a bit of dust will seep out.

 

[ShuBunny]

Hi @Norcalbaker59,

Again, thanks for the careful explanation.
I’m understanding this as - it’s still the butter temperature and the overall DDT that matters more than using caster or granulated sugar.

Because caster sugar dissolves faster, if I mess up the butter Temperature before or during creaming, I’m likely to end up with caster sugar too quickly dissolved to create air pockets in the butter.

But if the butter and creaming temperature is right, and still I have dissolved all the caster sugar, I won’t get the proper browning in the cookie after it is chilled in the fridge. (Thinking of your earlier post about my overcreamed dough)

Is my line of logic correct thus far?

On the other hand, if creaming is done correctly, caster sugar gives a finer crumb, and granulated sugar a slightly more coarse crumb and better browning since less of the granulated sugar gets dissolved?

I made a batch of cookies with caster sugar to see what happens! Tomorrow will tell.

Thank you!

 

[Norcalbaker59]

Hi @Norcalbaker59,

Again, thanks for the careful explanation.
I’m understanding this as - it’s still the butter temperature and the overall DDT that matters more than using caster or granulated sugar.

Because caster sugar dissolves faster, if I mess up the butter Temperature before or during creaming, I’m likely to end up with caster sugar too quickly dissolved to create air pockets in the butter.

But if the butter and creaming temperature is right, and still I have dissolved all the caster sugar, I won’t get the proper browning in the cookie after it is chilled in the fridge. (Thinking of your earlier post about my overcreamed dough)

Is my line of logic correct thus far?

On the other hand, if creaming is done correctly, caster sugar gives a finer crumb, and granulated sugar a slightly more coarse crumb and better browning since less of the granulated sugar gets dissolved?

I made a batch of cookies with caster sugar to see what happens! Tomorrow will tell.

Thank you!

just keep an eye on the butter. Do you want to see the color of the butter change to lighter yellow and increase in volume. Those are the two most important things. But if the butter begins showing signs of melting (greasy streaks inside the bowl) then stop. Don’t apply a lot of pressure if you’re using the hand mixer (pressing the butter against the side of the bowl); let the butter mix through the beaters in the center of the bowl. Pressing the butter up against the side of the bowl with the beaters will just create more friction heat.

Technique is important when you’re using a hand mixer and beating a small amount of butter. Keep your mixer on a lower speed as well.

 

[Cahoot]

A video that might be relevant to this discussion. The summary is that the person who made the video conducted a set of experiments and found out what caused the crackly skin on brownies:

1. Ensuring the sugar is well dissolved
2. Ensuring the sugar is in the form of sucrose, and not glucose or fructose (e.g. invert sugar syrups)
3. Minimizing the amount of water

This would also apply to cookies, and I realized that point #2 and maybe #3 explain why cookies made with an invert sugar like corn syrup have a smooth surface instead of a crackly or rippled surface.

So in the efforts to get a more crinkled surface, one idea is to ensure that you're using cane sugar and not beet sugar. Beet sugar contains a miniscule amount of impurities, which includes invert sugar, so that would affect the "skin" on the cookie (although to what degree, I've no idea). And of course ensuring the sugar is well dissolved, so caster sugar would be better for that end, along with proper and thorough creaming.

 

[Norcalbaker59]

A video that might be relevant to this discussion. The summary is that the person who made the video conducted a set of experiments and found out what caused the crackly skin on brownies:

1. Ensuring the sugar is well dissolved
2. Ensuring the sugar is in the form of sucrose, and not glucose or fructose (e.g. invert sugar syrups)
3. Minimizing the amount of water

This would also apply to cookies, and I realized that point #2 and maybe #3 explain why cookies made with an invert sugar like corn syrup have a smooth surface instead of a crackly or rippled surface.

So in the efforts to get a more crinkled surface, one idea is to ensure that you're using cane sugar and not beet sugar. Beet sugar contains a miniscule amount of impurities, which includes invert sugar, so that would affect the "skin" on the cookie (although to what degree, I've no idea). And of course ensuring the sugar is well dissolved, so caster sugar would be better for that end, along with proper and thorough creaming.

Three things he missed are 1) ratio of flour and sugar to butter; 2) butterfat percentage in butter; 3) weight of eggs. Both flour and sugar are hygroscopic and compete for free water in water. Adjusting ratio of flour and sugar to the weight of the egg is the fastest and simplest way to change the hydration level, not throw out an whole egg white. Tossing out an entire egg white will throw the whole recipe out of whack. Also change the type of butter and the ratio of butter to flour and sugar. His approach is strange, not one a baker usually takes.

 

[Norcalbaker59]

But here is what I don’t get is why is he jumping through all these hoops to reduce the water or whatever he is doing, when bakers have been ribboning sugar and eggs to dissolve the sugar like forever. And we know the reason we ribbon the eggs is to dissolve the sugar to achieve the crinkle top.





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