Pricing dilemma

[LamsMekk]

I’m not angry. I’ve taken a lot of my personal time answering your questions here and your emails to my personal email address. I’ve sent you a considerable amount of information on commercial donut production. Included a lot of research that I normally wouldn’t provide to anyone.

Yeast is a living organism. There are certain standards if you want to produce a product consistently for sale. You’ve asked me multiple times in different ways about yeast. About consistency in dough production. I’ve answered the questions depth here in in personal emails. There are standards for commercial production if you want the product to reproduce consistently batch after batch.

You keep telling me your dough is inconsistent. But you have not done the DDT. When I tell you absolutely need to do DDT, you say you cannot for this reason or that reason. It doesn’t matter what yeast you use, you still must control the temperature of the dough. Whether it’s dry yeast or fresh yeast, you have to do DDT.

Yes because what is simple and clear cut to you isn’t simple and clear cut to everyone else. As you stated above, you’ve sent me a considerable amount of information which isn’t always easy to pick through and understand.

Prior to communicating with you I had never in my life heard of DDT, bakers percentages, I had never even ever really used yeast before at all. This is all EXTREMELY new to me, and whilst I greatly appreciate your support and wisdom throughout this process, I think it’s unfair to assume that I’m purposefully ignoring your advice. That isn’t the case at all, I simply haven’t had time to sit down and totally comprehend everything and go through it all.

Ironically, I read your post and for the first time I finally understood DDT which I was very happy about.

As you have previously stated to me, you’ve had 20 years of classes, top teachers, workshops etc, I’ve barely been making yeast based baked for 20 weeks. Additionally to that, all I’ve had access to is this website and google which as we’ve discussed before, is filled to the brim with contradictory information.


I am trying my best, and I am absolutely not intentionally ignoring your advice. I also completely acknowledge how much time and effort you have put into helping me and for that I am very thankful which I have told you many times.

 

[retired baker]

Yes because what is simple and clear cut to you isn’t simple and clear cut to everyone else. As you stated above, you’ve sent me a considerable amount of information which isn’t always easy to pick through and understand.

Prior to communicating with you I had never in my life heard of DDT, bakers percentages, I had never even ever really used yeast before at all. This is all EXTREMELY new to me, and whilst I greatly appreciate your support and wisdom throughout this process, I think it’s unfair to assume that I’m purposefully ignoring your advice. That isn’t the case at all, I simply haven’t had time to sit down and totally comprehend everything and go through it all.

Ironically, I read your post and for the first time I finally understood DDT which I was very happy about.

As you have previously stated to me, you’ve had 20 years of classes, top teachers, workshops etc, I’ve barely been making yeast based baked for 20 weeks. Additionally to that, all I’ve had access to is this website and google which as we’ve discussed before, is filled to the brim with contradictory information.


I am trying my best, and I am absolutely not intentionally ignoring your advice. I also completely acknowledge how much time and effort you have put into helping me and for that I am very thankful which I have told you many times.

The description for calculating water temp sounds a lot more complicated than it really is, its a useful formula that can bail you out of sticky situations. In a high production facility its a must, we had a machine which dispensed correct water temps, you just dialed in how much you needed and it did the rest.

Theres no drama at home, you can't get fired but the same principles are at play,
do the math, the answer is the same, lower the temperature.

Lets say its going to be a hot day, its already 80F, you think cold tap water will be good, but the cold tap water is 70F, even though it feels cold its still too warm. Anything below 96F will feel cool but thats the deception. It can easily be way too warm when it feels cold.

Lets say I am making a large batch of french bread, I want the dough at 65F to give me some time to get it all rolled.
Room and flour is 160f total. Doubling my dough temp is 130f. The difference is 30, the short answer is still 30F ...aka ice water.

Theres tolerance to adjust temps and you can be off by a margin of 20 degs, but you were off by 60F.
You had no room to compensate because it was dead on arrival.
In aviation, co-pilots call out V2 during takeoff runs, thats the point of no return, they have to take off or crash. In pilot speak, one of your wings fell off and you were way beyond V2.

 

[LamsMekk]

The description for calculating water temp sounds a lot more complicated than it really is, its a useful formula that can bail you out of sticky situations. In a high production facility its a must, we had a machine which dispensed correct water temps, you just dialed in how much you needed and it did the rest.

Theres no drama at home, you can't get fired but the same principles are at play,
do the math, the answer is the same, lower the temperature.

Lets say its going to be a hot day, its already 80F, you think cold tap water will be good, but the cold tap water is 70F, even though it feels cold its still too warm. Anything below 96F will feel cool but thats the deception. It can easily be way too warm when it feels cold.

Lets say I am making a large batch of french bread, I want the dough at 65F to give me some time to get it all rolled.
Room and flour is 160f total. Doubling my dough temp is 130f. The difference is 30, the short answer is still 30F ...aka ice water.

Theres tolerance to adjust temps and you can be off by a margin of 20 degs, but you were off by 60F.
You had no room to compensate because it was dead on arrival.
In aviation, co-pilots call out V2 during takeoff runs, thats the point of no return, they have to take off or crash. In pilot speak, one of your wings fell off and you were way beyond V2.

Thanks for this, ah how I wish I had one of those machine that you had in Your workplace lol.

Well eventually I would like to start a small business from home so accuracy is really important for me also.

I have a sugar thermometer For measuring liquid temperatures, which isn’t really helpful to me I’m this situation as it’s a bit rubbish. I need to invest in a good quality dough thermometer, a different liquid one and a proofing box.

I have large windows and so most places in my flat can get a bit drafty, I think I’m this instance a proofing box is the best option as I learned recently that even proofing next to a draft can affect the outcome! It’s crazy!

The complexities of baking have taken me totally off guard. I had no idea it was this complicated

 

[retired baker]

Thanks for this, ah how I wish I had one of those machine that you had in Your workplace lol.

Well eventually I would like to start a small business from home so accuracy is really important for me also.

I have a sugar thermometer For measuring liquid temperatures, which isn’t really helpful to me I’m this situation as it’s a bit rubbish. I need to invest in a good quality dough thermometer, a different liquid one and a proofing box.

I have large windows and so most places in my flat can get a bit drafty, I think I’m this instance a proofing box is the best option as I learned recently that even proofing next to a draft can affect the outcome! It’s crazy!

The complexities of baking have taken me totally off guard. I had no idea it was this complicated

I would get a job in a bakery.
if you wanted to start a plumbing business would you work with a plumber or buy some pipes and assume you know how everything is done.?

 

[LamsMekk]

I would get a job in a bakery.
if you wanted to start a plumbing business would you work with a plumber or buy some pipes and assume you know how everything is done.?

It’s very normal here for people to bake from home. There are many many self taught bakers who’ve made big bucks.

I’ll see how far I get I guess

 

[retired baker]

they make a lot of money home baking here too.

I'm all for baking from home, we started our first business baking from my partners apt for almost 2 years.

 

[LamsMekk]

they make a lot of money home baking here too.

I'm all for baking from home, we started our first business baking from my partners apt for almost 2 years.

Yes it’s crazy! But Of course I’m relying solely on the information I’ve been given here and the internet which makes it a lot harder.

Unfortunately courses are very expensive and I’m not in a position atm to be spending that kind of money.

I have been taught A LOT though and things are finally starting to make sense. I’ll see how it goes from here. Until things are perfect and consistent there’s no way I can even think of selling!

 

[retired baker]

I don't know the UK laws but in the US you can only sell home baked from pre-mixes, boxed cake mix etc.
When you start mixing ingredients its not legal.
As much as you feel you have learned, you don't know what you don't know and theres a danger involved.
Not to be a drama queen, but people die from simple mistakes in handling.
A one day sanitation food handling class is only $100.

 

[LamsMekk]

I don't know the UK laws but in the US you can only sell home baked from pre-mixes, boxed cake mix etc.
When you start mixing ingredients its not legal.
As much as you feel you have learned, you don't know what you don't know and theres a danger involved.
Not to be a drama queen, but people die from simple mistakes in handling.
A one day sanitation food handling class is only $100.

That isn’t the case here, selling from home is legal BUT you have to have the relevant qualifications, as you stated the food hygiene stuff etc and an inspection is carried out and a rating is given based on how clean and safe your working environment is.

 

[retired baker]

That isn’t the case here, selling from home is legal BUT you have to have the relevant qualifications, as you stated the food hygiene stuff etc and an inspection is carried out and a rating is given based on how clean and safe your working environment is.

At the end of the day its the same thing here, by the time you satisfy the health dept you are a bakery.
Lets consider sinks.
You cannot use the same sink for food prep as the dishes are cleaned in.
Most localities want to see 3 bay sink,.... wash, rinse, sanitize. Drainage area for air drying.
Another sink for mops.
another sink for hand washing.
Single bay food sink.

Wooden skirting boards are not allowed, they have to be waterproof, not wood, to sustain mopping.
All commercial kitchens must have hood extraction, with fire repression system, removeable filters for washing.
Consumer level dishwashers are illegal.
Grease traps are required on all drains.
it goes on and on.

On average it costs $60K to meet the basic health code.

Foodstars

Read our guide to UK commercial kitchen regulations, including food hygiene and safety, utilities regulations and certifications, and more.

www.foodstarsuk.com

 

[LamsMekk]

At the end of the day its the same thing here, by the time you satisfy the health dept you are a bakery.
Lets consider sinks.
You cannot use the same sink for food prep as the dishes are cleaned in.
Most localities want to see 3 bay sink,.... wash, rinse, sanitize. Drainage area for air drying.
Another sink for mops.
another sink for hand washing.
Single bay food sink.

Wooden skirting boards are not allowed, they have to be waterproof, not wood, to sustain mopping.
All commercial kitchens must have hood extraction, with fire repression system, removeable filters for washing.
Consumer level dishwashers are illegal.
Grease traps are required on all drains.
it goes on and on.

On average it costs $60K to meet the basic health code.

Foodstars

Read our guide to UK commercial kitchen regulations, including food hygiene and safety, utilities regulations and certifications, and more.

www.foodstarsuk.com

That’s mad!!!

 

[LamsMekk]

At the end of the day its the same thing here, by the time you satisfy the health dept you are a bakery.
Lets consider sinks.
You cannot use the same sink for food prep as the dishes are cleaned in.
Most localities want to see 3 bay sink,.... wash, rinse, sanitize. Drainage area for air drying.
Another sink for mops.
another sink for hand washing.
Single bay food sink.

Wooden skirting boards are not allowed, they have to be waterproof, not wood, to sustain mopping.
All commercial kitchens must have hood extraction, with fire repression system, removeable filters for washing.
Consumer level dishwashers are illegal.
Grease traps are required on all drains.
it goes on and on.

On average it costs $60K to meet the basic health code.

Foodstars

Read our guide to UK commercial kitchen regulations, including food hygiene and safety, utilities regulations and certifications, and more.

www.foodstarsuk.com

Brød & Taylor Folding Proofer & Slow Cooker

Prove bread, make yogurt and make one pot meals with ease with the The Brod & Taylor Folding Proofer and Slow Cooker. Compact when folded down and ideal for those wanting to prove bread but with no warm cupboard...

www.bakerybits.co.uk

Any good? Not got mass baking just home baking for fun. I can’t control my room temperature as I don’t have a modern heating system.

Thanks

 

[retired baker]

Brød & Taylor Folding Proofer & Slow Cooker

Prove bread, make yogurt and make one pot meals with ease with the The Brod & Taylor Folding Proofer and Slow Cooker. Compact when folded down and ideal for those wanting to prove bread but with no warm cupboard...

www.bakerybits.co.uk

Any good? Not got mass baking just home baking for fun. I can’t control my room temperature as I don’t have a modern heating system.

Thanks

the farmer next door uses something like that to hatch chickens.
for proofing doughs I use the oven, place a pan of boiling water in the bottom to add steam.
Or put the loaf in the microwave with a cup of hot water, close the door and let it proof.
ovens with gas pilot is perfect, oven makes good yoghurt too.
I would save the money for a high quality mixer or more practical tools.

 

[LamsMekk]

Unfortunately I’m unable to regulate the temperature in the oven but I think I can with the proofing box?

I did proof in the oven and it happened really quickly! Which I thought was not a good thing lol

 

[retired baker]

turn the oven on for 3 minutes, then turn it off.
wait 2 minutes and touch the inside wall of the oven, if it feels nice and warm you're all set.
the best boulanger from paris I trained with didn't own a proof box, there wasn't room in the kitchen for a one trick peice of equipment, he rolled 50 baguettes and put white aprons over each tray of bread and left them in the rack.
Proofing the dough on the table was easy, just ball it up and cover it all with a big sheet of plastic from painters drop cloth.
for a single loaf you can just invert a bowl over it and leave it on the table to proof.

these days you can buy plastic rack covers with zipper doors, proof 20 trays of bread in each rolling rack, no fancy humidity gadget required as the bread provides its own humidity. or single use disposable rack bags. They work very nicely.

LK Packaging 52" x 80" Disposable .6 Mil Bun Pan Rack Covers - 50/Roll

These LK Packaging high density sheet pan rack covers are designed to cover a full size pan rack to help retain freshness. They measure 52"W x 80"H and are .6 mil thick. These bags are made of strong high density plastic.

www.webstaurantstore.com