What are your incremental baking improvements?

[Emmie]

You can get the loaf very crusty with steam in the oven. Just place a small tray on the oven floor or lower rack and add boiling water. I place it in the oven about 5 minutes before baking so when I open the door some of the steam escapes. I don’t want too much steam in the oven.

Alternatively, you can bake in a cast iron dutch oven. Just make sure the knobs on the dutch oven are safe to high temperatures.

explains methods for adding steam to oven

Baking bread with steam

Baking bread with steam is the key to a golden, crisp, shiny crust in your bread. Here are the ways to do it at home.

www.kingarthurbaking.com

Well, that’s made me feel better as that’s exactly what I normally do with the tray! Never sure whether I’m right when I do these things though. I have a full size and half size oven and have never tried the half size one for baking. Though it might only work as a fan oven, would have to check.

Thanks for the link - I’ll have a look when I get up as it’s nearly 1am here. Too many late nights!

 

[Emmie]

Well, after all my little improvements, especially with my new flour and having finally got to grips with dried active yeast, I attempted a loaf I've wanted to do for ages today - a cottage loaf! They really remind me of my childhood as our bakers used to always have them. I have a recipe and method in my Elizabeth David book, though she warns they're almost impossible in a modern oven. The hydration was very low - just over 60% AND the recipe is a quarter wholemeal flour, so effectively drier than that! But I cross-checked a couple of recipes online and the hydration in those was also quite low. In her method, David does say it's important the dough isn't too slack, otherwise the bottom cob will just get flattened by the top one so that seemed to make sense.

I'm used to working with 70% hydration dough so I found this hard to knead. The finished product is also a little drier than usual, which is unsurprising, but I might experiment with increasing the hydration slightly to see what the maximum is I can get away with without the dough collapsing. Because I'm using a more flavourful French T65 flour, I think I can get away with less wholemeal flour in there - maybe 10-15% rather than 25%. David says to essentially put the top cob on upside down, with the taut, shaped surface of the dough underneath. I had to think about this and apply my baking knowledge but it makes sense as when you plunge through the top of the dough to the bottom, I think it makes sense to have the two surfaces with tension touching each other. Whatever, it worked really well!

All in all, I'm really pleased with it. It's a bit rustic, but that's in keeping with the style. My cuts needed to be a bit more confident. But the most difficult part - making sure the top and bottom cobs fuse together and the top one doesn't bake lopsided - went pretty well. As I say, it's drier than I'm used to but fairly fluffy and tasty. I'll definitely bake this again - another little taste of childhood!

 

[Norcalbaker59]

Well, after all my little improvements, especially with my new flour and having finally got to grips with dried active yeast, I attempted a loaf I've wanted to do for ages today - a cottage loaf! They really remind me of my childhood as our bakers used to always have them. I have a recipe and method in my Elizabeth David book, though she warns they're almost impossible in a modern oven. The hydration was very low - just over 60% AND the recipe is a quarter wholemeal flour, so effectively drier than that! But I cross-checked a couple of recipes online and the hydration in those was also quite low. In her method, David does say it's important the dough isn't too slack, otherwise the bottom cob will just get flattened by the top one so that seemed to make sense.

I'm used to working with 70% hydration dough so I found this hard to knead. The finished product is also a little drier than usual, which is unsurprising, but I might experiment with increasing the hydration slightly to see what the maximum is I can get away with without the dough collapsing. Because I'm using a more flavourful French T65 flour, I think I can get away with less wholemeal flour in there - maybe 10-15% rather than 25%. David says to essentially put the top cob on upside down, with the taut, shaped surface of the dough underneath. I had to think about this and apply my baking knowledge but it makes sense as when you plunge through the top of the dough to the bottom, I think it makes sense to have the two surfaces with tension touching each other. Whatever, it worked really well!

All in all, I'm really pleased with it. It's a bit rustic, but that's in keeping with the style. My cuts needed to be a bit more confident. But the most difficult part - making sure the top and bottom cobs fuse together and the top one doesn't bake lopsided - went pretty well. As I say, it's drier than I'm used to but fairly fluffy and tasty. I'll definitely bake this again - another little taste of childhood!

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Congratulation! OK so I’m not familiar with this technique. I’m very curious please explain further. I am all ears!!!

 

[ShuBunny]

This looks like a really cute bread!

 

[Emmie]

Haha, okay. An English cottage loaf is just two balls of dough, one on top of the other. Kind of looks like an old lady with her hair in a bun. I think it came about because a few hundred years ago people didn’t have ovens. They used to bake bread in a nook in the hearth or take it to a community oven at the bakehouse. Space was cramped, so loaves had to be tall rather than wide, hence the shape. It’s difficult to bake in a home oven because of the awkward shape but probably worked well back then.

I think Paul Hollywood has a recipe online and like most recipes it calls for the bread to be dusted with flour but the ones from my childhood were egg washed and sprinkled with poppy seeds so that’s what I’ve done.

I made a 60% hydration dough with 500g flour. The only difference was I added a couple of teaspoons of vegetable shortening, as that’s what Elizabeth David stipulates but I’m not sure it did much! After the first rise, you separate a third of the dough and shape the two pieces of dough into big roll shapes. (Depending on what part of the UK you’re from, you might call it a roll or a cob or a bap or a batch or a bun or a barm - it all means ‘bread roll’) Try to use no or minimal flour or the two bits of dough won’t fuse. Leave for 10 minutes and re-shape then leave to proof. You need it slightly under-proofed so it doesn’t collapse.

Then you have to work quickly. You take the big piece of dough and flatten the top slightly and cut a cross in the top, an inch or two big. Then take the smaller piece of dough and place it upside down on the big bit of dough, then with floured hand, make a kind of cone shape with your thumb and first two fingers, like you’re going to do a bird beak shadow puppet! Push your fingers straight down through both bits of dough almost to the bottom. Fortunately I’ve got a dough mixing tool that has the perfect shape handle for this so I just used that instead! Then egg wash and sprinkle with seeds before cutting eight slashes on both rolls. Then pop straight into a hot steamy oven for 15 minutes (about 230C) then turn it down to about 190C for 20-30 minutes.

It‘s a hugely impractical shape for bread baking but very pretty and quite nostalgic for me! I just sent a pic to my older sister and she loved it too - I’d forgotten we’d had it at our grandparents’ house.

 

[ShuBunny]

Oh the nostalgia of this loaf

 

[Norcalbaker59]

Haha, okay. An English cottage loaf is just two balls of dough, one on top of the other. Kind of looks like an old lady with her hair in a bun. I think it came about because a few hundred years ago people didn’t have ovens. They used to bake bread in a nook in the hearth or take it to a community oven at the bakehouse. Space was cramped, so loaves had to be tall rather than wide, hence the shape. It’s difficult to bake in a home oven because of the awkward shape but probably worked well back then.

I think Paul Hollywood has a recipe online and like most recipes it calls for the bread to be dusted with flour but the ones from my childhood were egg washed and sprinkled with poppy seeds so that’s what I’ve done.

I made a 60% hydration dough with 500g flour. The only difference was I added a couple of teaspoons of vegetable shortening, as that’s what Elizabeth David stipulates but I’m not sure it did much! After the first rise, you separate a third of the dough and shape the two pieces of dough into big roll shapes. (Depending on what part of the UK you’re from, you might call it a roll or a cob or a bap or a batch or a bun or a barm - it all means ‘bread roll’) Try to use no or minimal flour or the two bits of dough won’t fuse. Leave for 10 minutes and re-shape then leave to proof. You need it slightly under-proofed so it doesn’t collapse.

Then you have to work quickly. You take the big piece of dough and flatten the top slightly and cut a cross in the top, an inch or two big. Then take the smaller piece of dough and place it upside down on the big bit of dough, then with floured hand, make a kind of cone shape with your thumb and first two fingers, like you’re going to do a bird beak shadow puppet! Push your fingers straight down through both bits of dough almost to the bottom. Fortunately I’ve got a dough mixing tool that has the perfect shape handle for this so I just used that instead! Then egg wash and sprinkle with seeds before cutting eight slashes on both rolls. Then pop straight into a hot steamy oven for 15 minutes (about 230C) then turn it down to about 190C for 20-30 minutes.

It‘s a hugely impractical shape for bread baking but very pretty and quite nostalgic for me! I just sent a pic to my older sister and she loved it too - I’d forgotten we’d had it at our grandparents’ house.

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So when you pierce the hole down the center that will fuse the two balls of dough together? so the top the ball doesn’t fall off during baking, correct? Your bread has a beautiful golden color, so did you egg wash it? did you add any moisture in the oven? I wanna try to make one of these. It’s really an interesting looking loaf. How did you piece the hole without collapsing the entire structure? i’d be worried that I’d knock the air out of both dough balls.

 

[Emmie]

So when you pierce the hole down the center that will fuse the two balls of dough together? so the top the ball doesn’t fall off during baking, correct? Your bread has a beautiful golden color, so did you egg wash it? did you add any moisture in the oven? I wanna try to make one of these. It’s really an interesting looking loaf. How did you piece the hole without collapsing the entire structure? i’d be worried that I’d knock the air out of both dough balls.

That was exactly what I was worried about too! But it seems a stiff dough, under-proofing slightly and a confident technique are key.

You‘re absolutely right about piercing through the loaves, it’s just to fuse them and make sure the smaller one doesn’t fall off, you’re going almost all the way to the bottom of the loaf. And yes I egg-washed it then added the poppy seeds. I was a bit hesitant with my cuts as the knife I usually use was in the dishwasher! So some of them should have been deeper. But it was wonderfully crusty. I poured about half a pint of boiling water into a pan in the bottom of the oven, scalded my hand because I was rushing, so went to shape he dough and just before I put the bread in, poured another pint of water in the tray. Accidental but my best crusty crust so far.

 

[Norcalbaker59]

That was exactly what I was worried about too! But it seems a stiff dough, under-proofing slightly and a confident technique are key.

You‘re absolutely right about piercing through the loaves, it’s just to fuse them and make sure the smaller one doesn’t fall off, you’re going almost all the way to the bottom of the loaf. And yes I egg-washed it then added the poppy seeds. I was a bit hesitant with my cuts as the knife I usually use was in the dishwasher! So some of them should have been deeper. But it was wonderfully crusty. I poured about half a pint of boiling water into a pan in the bottom of the oven, scalded my hand because I was rushing, so went to shape he dough and just before I put the bread in, poured another pint of water in the tray. Accidental but my best crusty crust so far.

Oh I’m sorry you scalded yourself. But in the end you got a really cute little loaf. And I love provincial baked goods. I’m surprised a similar loaf doesn’t exist in the US given this country was settled by British colonists.

 

[Emmie]

Oh, I do it all the time, I'm so clumsy! Forgot to wear an oven glove when pouring the kettle of water so the steam plus the heat of the oven got me. Yes, you would expect some form of it to exist in the US really. Maybe it was just too bothersome to make! They have a version of it in Brittany so it could have conceivably travelled to or from there. It's been around since at least the early 1800s but who knows how far back really. People weren't really into culinary histories very much before then.

I used to teach literature and linguistics and thought it would be fun to get some of my 18 year olds cooking a really old recipe so they could experience the differences in format (no ingredients list, often just a paragraph explaining the method that included ingredients as it went along - awful for mise en place, which is kind of what I wanted them to realise). We made a curry recipe from the 1800s and 3 out of the 8 kids had to go to the school medical room because they'd cut themselves with the knives. Then I realised why they hadn't been able to analyse historical differences with recipes - it was because they had barely ever cooked!

 

[Norcalbaker59]

Oh, I do it all the time, I'm so clumsy! Forgot to wear an oven glove when pouring the kettle of water so the steam plus the heat of the oven got me. Yes, you would expect some form of it to exist in the US really. Maybe it was just too bothersome to make! They have a version of it in Brittany so it could have conceivably travelled to or from there. It's been around since at least the early 1800s but who knows how far back really. People weren't really into culinary histories very much before then.

I used to teach literature and linguistics and thought it would be fun to get some of my 18 year olds cooking a really old recipe so they could experience the differences in format (no ingredients list, often just a paragraph explaining the method that included ingredients as it went along - awful for mise en place, which is kind of what I wanted them to realise). We made a curry recipe from the 1800s and 3 out of the 8 kids had to go to the school medical room because they'd cut themselves with the knives. Then I realised why they hadn't been able to analyse historical differences with recipes - it was because they had barely ever cooked!

We have fruitcake, the mincemeat, the steam cake, but not the cottage loaf. Go figure.

Oh you really should think about doing historic recipes with your students. It’s really fun to learn about how and why ingredients were used; how cooking was achieved 150 years ago.

I love historic cooking classes. When I lived in Southern California I used to take classes through the Getty museum and the Italian Association. One of the art historians at the Getty was also a food historian. When they had a special exhibit she would develop a menu around the exhibit. She would do a lecture on the exhibit; we would tour the exhibit; then we would cook a meal based on that time. She would do a lecture on food from that period; all the ingredients would be from that period if possible. We divide into small groups and each group would prepare a dish for the meal. Then we would all sit together to eat the meal.


The Italian association did the same thing. The art historian for the Getty was also an associate of the Italian association. So she hosted these historic cooking classes for them. They were based on Italian art. The association had a art gallery in their building. So she would do a lecture on exhibits there.

I really miss these types of cooking classes. It was a great way to enjoy art, learn about food history, meet new friends, and eat.

 

[Emmie]

We have fruitcake, the mincemeat, the steam cake, but not the cottage loaf. Go figure.

Oh you really should think about doing historic recipes with your students. It’s really fun to learn about how and why ingredients were used; how cooking was achieved 150 years ago.

I love historic cooking classes. When I lived in Southern California I used to take classes through the Getty museum and the Italian Association. One of the art historians at the Getty was also a food historian. When they had a special exhibit she would develop a menu around the exhibit. She would do a lecture on the exhibit; we would tour the exhibit; then we would cook a meal based on that time. She would do a lecture on food from that period; all the ingredients would be from that period if possible. We divide into small groups and each group would prepare a dish for the meal. Then we would all sit together to eat the meal.


The Italian association did the same thing. The art historian for the Getty was also an associate of the Italian association. So she hosted these historic cooking classes for them. They were based on Italian art. The association had a art gallery in their building. So she would do a lecture on exhibits there.

I really miss these types of cooking classes. It was a great way to enjoy art, learn about food history, meet new friends, and eat.

Ah, if I taught history I probably could. Our curriculum is quite prescriptive over here. But I left teaching just before the pandemic - thank goodness as I think my colleagues are exhausted! The closest I‘d get now is historically and geographically accurate food at murder mystery parties.

 

[Emmie]

Owl rolls today! I'm thinking of doing a whole woodland theme. These need a bit of work, but that's the thing with incremental improvements - you learn so much from just doing that next time they still won't be perfect but they'll be a lot better.

 

[Norcalbaker59]

Owl rolls today! I'm thinking of doing a whole woodland theme. These need a bit of work, but that's the thing with incremental improvements - you learn so much from just doing that next time they still won't be perfect but they'll be a lot better.

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lol I’m still chuckling they are too cute. That would be so great if you do a forest of animals. She is going to be the envy of her classmates. Yes, the more you bake, the more you learn. And interesting the failures, well I always say failure is my greatest teacher. I’ve learned more from failure than than a success.

 

[Emmie]

lol I’m still chuckling they are too cute. That would be so great if you do a forest of animals. She is going to be the envy of her classmates. Yes, the more you bake, the more you learn. And interesting the failures, well I always say failure is my greatest teacher. I’ve learned more from failure than than a success.

You’re exactly right - I mean, no one wants to fail but if something goes right first time, its often luck and you don’t really know what made it go right. As long as SOMETHING goes right then it’s not a disaster.

 

[ShuBunny]

Dang, I should hang these two lines above my oven.
And will you make a bunny bun eventually?

 

[Emmie]

Right - next week @ShuBunny - rabbit buns!

 

[ShuBunny]

I'm actually peeking at this thread to see if the rabbit buns are in the making. @Emmie

 

[Emmie]

Oh no @ShuBunny! I’ve not been well again this week - have put my back out somehow so I’ve not done any bread! I did have some frozen dough that I baked in a mini loaf tin and have made the cutest tiny sandwiches instead, about an inch and a half to two inches square! But I’ve not been up to making bread from scratch. If I’m feeling better next week I promise you’ll get your bunnies!

 

[ShuBunny]

Oh no @ShuBunny! I’ve not been well again this week - have put my back out somehow so I’ve not done any bread! I did have some frozen dough that I baked in a mini loaf tin and have made the cutest tiny sandwiches instead, about an inch and a half to two inches square! But I’ve not been up to making bread from scratch. If I’m feeling better next week I promise you’ll get your bunnies!

oh poor thing!
please feel better soon. I've had back injuries frequently into past. That really sucks.

2 inch sandwiches sound super cute. Me and the bread bunnies can wait.
Get well <3