Shortbread biscuits/cookies

[Cahoot]

I think there are only a couple of cases when an immersion blender is preferred, chocolate work for sure. But if I had to choose between an immersion blender or a good food processor, I would go with a good food processor. An immersion blender is a nice to have tool, but a good one is expensive. And buying a good one is important. Being about to control the speed and removing the wand for cleaning is important. But overall as far as kitchen tools go, you would get more use from a food processor. I use more food processor more than my immersion blender.

With the lemon curd/cream, I like to emulsify the mixture as quickly as possible. Passing through the tamis not only helps to cool it, but makes it really smooth and I think prepares it to take the butter better. I pass it through twice. I let it cool in a wide stainless steel bowl before transferring to the food processor.

The food process with the steady speed incorporates the butter really fast. The high speed of the blade and open feed tube allows steam to escape while adding the butter. I add flatten the cubed butter at timed intervals to better emulsify. Once the butter is added I run the processor for about 2 minutes (I set the timer) to emulsify. I then transfer to a glass bowl and place plastic wrap on the surface to prevent a skin from forming.


I don’t change anything just the fruit juice when I make other flavors as the fruits I use are still tart or mixed with varieties that are tart. I use a mix of fresh cara cara orange and grapefruit juice or a passion fruit puree from The Perfect Puree, a local company that is a national restaurant and bakery supplier. Their passion fruit is doubled concentrated, so it is very flavorful and tangy. It is a favorite with many pastry chefs. Honestly, the passion fruit is my favorite cream filling.

I tried mango puree (I think it was from Trader Joe), but did not have much luck with it. It turned gray and did not set. But it may have been the brand. The Perfect Puree makes a so many quality purees, I should just experiment with their other flavors to see how they work.

The tamis is not a home baker/cooks tool in the US. They don’t sell it in the retail stores, or at least I’ve never seen them offered at a retail store here. It‘s sold in the restaurant supply stores. I’m not sure about internationally, whether they are sold in the retail stores. I learned how to use the tamis properly some years ago from one of Thomas Keller’s cookbooks, The French Laundry. Up to that point I had used my tamis as a shifter—afterall, I am a baker. We used it to shift large batches of dry ingredients since they make. tamis in large diameters, so I used my handled mesh strainers for sauces and creams. I had no idea the French chefs were using it for sauces, creams, etc. Keller said they use the tamis daily in the kitchen to smooth all their sauces, and each is passed through twice, some thrice. He’s right, the tamis is a game changer. Now when I want to smooth something, I reach for my tamis and bowl scraper. I own four of them in various sizes. I still own nearly 1/2 dozen handled mesh strainers, but when it comes to smoothing, its the tamis.

Yes, pressing on the traditional mesh strainer will damage it. When using a tamis, a plasic bowl scraper is used to scrape across the surface, so it not as easily damaged. But it will wear in time. But they also make a commercial tamis with screen set in the center of a frame that can be taken apart so the screen can be replaced.

Something else I remembered about the Pierre Hermé lemon cream recipe. Do you not find it too sweet? I have a pretty big sweet tooth, probably quite a bit higher than an average person's to be honest, and I thought it was very sweet. My family found the sweetness borderline overbearing.

I also made it with Eureka lemons, but also decreased the butter to the same weight as the eggs and sugar, and it was still too sweet. If I used the original amount of butter (150% weight of eggs/sugar), then maybe it would've been better.

I'm just wondering because it's a pretty popular recipe, so I've looked at a bunch of other people who've posted it online, and no one makes a comment on the sweetness. Which I found strange, considering it's basically never when I find something too sweet but the average person doesn't.

 

[Norcalbaker59]

Something else I remembered about the Pierre Hermé lemon cream recipe. Do you not find it too sweet? I have a pretty big sweet tooth, probably quite a bit higher than an average person's to be honest, and I thought it was very sweet. My family found the sweetness borderline overbearing.

I also made it with Eureka lemons, but also decreased the butter to the same weight as the eggs and sugar, and it was still too sweet. If I used the original amount of butter (150% weight of eggs/sugar), then maybe it would've been better.

I'm just wondering because it's a pretty popular recipe, so I've looked at a bunch of other people who've posted it online, and no one makes a comment on the sweetness. Which I found strange, considering it's basically never when I find something too sweet but the average person doesn't.

The reason I use this recipe is because it is not too sweet. My family is Japanese; Asians don’t like sugary foods. I’ve had so many compliments on it not being too sweet, and one that it was too tart even.

I make it from either Herme’s cookbook or more often a cookbook written by a pastry chef who worked for him in Paris. I love Dorie Greenspan, but these cup and teaspoon recipes are just crap. You cannot control the portions using cup measurements.

The sweetness of the curd depends on many factors: the tartness of the fruit juice, amount of juice and the amount of added sugar, butterfat in the butter and amount of butter. It’s a balance of all these things, not just a matter of added sugar as one might think. When making your curd/cream, you have to think about all these things. Austin’s adaptation calls for 40g more butter, 5 g less sugar, 8 ml more juice. They are very small tweeks, but having used both versions of recipes, I find her small tweaks produce a creamier tangier curd. I am sure it is a combination of lemon variety, butter and sugar in the US as well.




Lemon Cream/Curd
adapted from recipes by Pierre Hermes and Patrica Austin

Yield: approx 880 grams
fills a 9” tart shell or 3 layer 8” cake



PLEASE READ MY NOTE ON INGREDIENT SELECTIONS AT THE BOTTOM



Note: measurements in parentheses and bold at end are from Patricia Austin’s version. Austin is an American pastry who worked for Herme in Paris.



220 g baker’s (caster) sugar (215g)

zest of 3 unwaxed lemons

200 g whole eggs, lightly beaten (220g)

160ml fresh lemon juice (168ml)

300 g unsalted butter (340g) 68°F - 70°F (20°C - 21°C)



Equipment:

• Saucepan
• Glass bowl, heatproof that fits over saucepan
• Whisk
• Heat proof spatula
• Thermometer
• Tamis or fine mesh sieve
• Second bowl
• Immersion blender or food processor
• Plastic wrap

Mise en place:

• Place the tamis or fine mesh sieve over the second bowl
• Set up the immersion blender or food processor
• Bring ingredients to required temperature
• Measure all ingredients

To create a Bain Marie, fill saucepan with several several inches of water. Over medium high, Heat the water to just under boiling. Reduce the heat to keep water at a simmer, just under boiling.


Zest lemons

Place the sugar and lemon zest in the heat proof glass bowl.

Infuse the sugar with the lemon zest by rubbing the zest in to the sugar with fingertips until the sugar feels a bit moist.

Stir lemon juice into the sugar, let sit a few minutes to allow sugar to absorb some of the juice.

Lightly beat eggs

Whisk in lightly beaten eggs until the mixture is completely combined. The mixture should look homogeneous.

Place the bowl over the simmering water. The bottom of the bowl should not touch the water.

Using the heat proof spatula, slowly stir the egg mixture over simmering water until the custard base reaches 180°F (82°C).**

The custard base requires very frequent stirring to create a smooth finished custard. It may take 15 minutes for the custard to reach the required temperature.

The cooked temperature of the custard base is very important. If cooked to a temperature below 170°F (77°C) the custard will not set properly. If cooked to a temperature above 185°F (29°C), the custard will begin to curdle.

Once the custard reaches 180°F (82°C) immediately remove it from the heat.

Strain the custard through the tamis or fine mesh sieve. Repeat

Stir the custard in a folding motion until some of the steam dissipates, about 30 seconds.

Let the custard sit, stirring occasionally until the temperature is reduced to 140°F (60°C) or lower. Cooling may take about five minutes.

To speed cooling, place the bowl over an ice bath and continue to stir.

======================================================================================================

Food processor: transfer the cooled custard to the food processor bowl and secure the lid.

Remove the insert from the feeding tube. Turn the food processor on and run the food processor for about 15 seconds allow the steam to escape.

Begin adding the butter a couple of tablespoon at a time. Allow approximately 15 seconds between additions to allow the butter to emulsify into the custard.

After all the butter has been added, continue to process the custard for about 2 minutes to fully emulsify the butter into the custard base.

The custard will increase in volume and the color will become a pastel yellow. Do not over beat the custard. Over beating will break the emulsification.

Transfer the custard into a clean non reactive bowl (I prefer glass). Place plastic film wrap directly on the surface of the custard. Take care to ensure there are no air bubbles between the plastic film wrap and the custard. This airtight cover will prevent a skin from forming on the top of the custard.

Cover the top of the bowl with a second sheet of plastic film wrap. This will keep the custard from absorbing any odors in the refrigerator.

Place in the refrigerator to cool.

Refrigerate up to 1 week

Freeze up to 1 month

This lemon curd can be poured over a pre-cooked crust, and placed in the oven for 5 to 10 minutes.

It can be topped with a meringue, and placed under a broiler to brown the meringue.



======================================================================================================

Immersion blender: transfer the cooled custard to a deep container.

Insert the immersion blender and turn on high speed.

Begin adding the butter a couple of tablespoon at a time. Allow approximately 15 seconds between additions to allow the butter to emulsify into the custard. Keep the head of the immersion blender fully submerged to prevent incorporating air into the mixture.

After all the butter has been added, continue to process the custard to fully emulsify the butter into the custard base.

The beating process may take up to 10 minutes.

The custard will increase in volume and the color will become a pastel yellow. Do not over beat the custard. Over beating will break the emulsification.

Transfer the custard into a clean non reactive bowl (I prefer glass). Place plastic film wrap directly on the surface of the custard. Take care to ensure there are no air bubbles between the plastic film wrap and the custard. This airtight cover will prevent a skin from forming on the top of the custard.

Cover the top of the bowl with a second sheet of plastic film wrap. This will keep the custard from absorbing any odors in the refrigerator.


=======================================================================================================

NOTE ON INGREDIENTS:

Lemons: type of lemon used will determine how tart the finished lemon curd tastes. The common Eureka lemon is highly acidic, so it will produce a very tart lemon curd. I never use Eureka lemons without blending it with other citrus to reduce the acidity. My favorite combination is Eureka lemon and ruby red grapefruit.

Meyers lemons, a hybrid between a lemon and a mandarin orange has low acidity. The juice is much sweeter than the Eureka lemon. This is my lemon of choice. I will use this lemon alone, or mix it with passion fruit. I generally use frozen passion fruit concentrate, since fresh passion fruit is every experience and difficult to find. I strain the juice out of the purée. Then use the juice and a couple tablespoons of the purée.

Any other citrus juice may be substituted for the lemon juice. I’ve used grapefruit, Cara Cara oranges, navel oranges, and passionfruit.

Butter: the butterfat content is important. The higher the butter fat content the creamier and smoother it will be. A rich butter with a minimum of 83% butterfat works best.


Intensity: The intensity of flavor comes from the oil in the zest, not the juice. You control the flavor by increasing/decreasing The amount of lemon zest used.


Texture: you can make a creamier and firmer texture by increasing the amount of butter used. For a firmer and creamier curd increase the butter by 40 grams (see Austin’s version in bold).

 

[Cahoot]

The reason I use this recipe is because it is not too sweet. My family is Japanese; Asians don’t like sugary foods. I’ve had so many compliments on it not being too sweet, and one that it was too tart even.

I make it from either Herme’s cookbook or more often a cookbook written by a pastry chef who worked for him in Paris. I love Dorie Greenspan, but these cup and teaspoon recipes are just crap. You cannot control the portions using cup measurements.

The sweetness of the curd depends on many factors: the tartness of the fruit juice, amount of juice and the amount of added sugar, butterfat in the butter and amount of butter. It’s a balance of all these things, not just a matter of added sugar as one might think. When making your curd/cream, you have to think about all these things. Austin’s adaptation calls for 40g more butter, 5 g less sugar, 8 ml more juice. They are very small tweeks, but having used both versions of recipes, I find her small tweaks produce a creamier tangier curd. I am sure it is a combination of lemon variety, butter and sugar in the US as well.




Lemon Cream/Curd
adapted from recipes by Pierre Hermes and Patrica Austin

Yield: approx 880 grams
fills a 9” tart shell or 3 layer 8” cake



PLEASE READ MY NOTE ON INGREDIENT SELECTIONS AT THE BOTTOM



Note: measurements in parentheses and bold at end are from Patricia Austin’s version. Austin is an American pastry who worked for Herme in Paris.



220 g baker’s (caster) sugar (215g)

zest of 3 unwaxed lemons

200 g whole eggs, lightly beaten (220g)

160ml fresh lemon juice (168ml)

300 g unsalted butter (340g) 68°F - 70°F (20°C - 21°C)



Equipment:

• Saucepan
• Glass bowl, heatproof that fits over saucepan
• Whisk
• Heat proof spatula
• Thermometer
• Tamis or fine mesh sieve
• Second bowl
• Immersion blender or food processor
• Plastic wrap

Mise en place:

• Place the tamis or fine mesh sieve over the second bowl
• Set up the immersion blender or food processor
• Bring ingredients to required temperature
• Measure all ingredients

To create a Bain Marie, fill saucepan with several several inches of water. Over medium high, Heat the water to just under boiling. Reduce the heat to keep water at a simmer, just under boiling.


Zest lemons

Place the sugar and lemon zest in the heat proof glass bowl.

Infuse the sugar with the lemon zest by rubbing the zest in to the sugar with fingertips until the sugar feels a bit moist.

Stir lemon juice into the sugar, let sit a few minutes to allow sugar to absorb some of the juice.

Lightly beat eggs

Whisk in lightly beaten eggs until the mixture is completely combined. The mixture should look homogeneous.

Place the bowl over the simmering water. The bottom of the bowl should not touch the water.

Using the heat proof spatula, slowly stir the egg mixture over simmering water until the custard base reaches 180°F (82°C).**

The custard base requires very frequent stirring to create a smooth finished custard. It may take 15 minutes for the custard to reach the required temperature.

The cooked temperature of the custard base is very important. If cooked to a temperature below 170°F (77°C) the custard will not set properly. If cooked to a temperature above 185°F (29°C), the custard will begin to curdle.

Once the custard reaches 180°F (82°C) immediately remove it from the heat.

Strain the custard through the tamis or fine mesh sieve. Repeat

Stir the custard in a folding motion until some of the steam dissipates, about 30 seconds.

Let the custard sit, stirring occasionally until the temperature is reduced to 140°F (60°C) or lower. Cooling may take about five minutes.

To speed cooling, place the bowl over an ice bath and continue to stir.

======================================================================================================

Food processor: transfer the cooled custard to the food processor bowl and secure the lid.

Remove the insert from the feeding tube. Turn the food processor on and run the food processor for about 15 seconds allow the steam to escape.

Begin adding the butter a couple of tablespoon at a time. Allow approximately 15 seconds between additions to allow the butter to emulsify into the custard.

After all the butter has been added, continue to process the custard for about 2 minutes to fully emulsify the butter into the custard base.

The custard will increase in volume and the color will become a pastel yellow. Do not over beat the custard. Over beating will break the emulsification.

Transfer the custard into a clean non reactive bowl (I prefer glass). Place plastic film wrap directly on the surface of the custard. Take care to ensure there are no air bubbles between the plastic film wrap and the custard. This airtight cover will prevent a skin from forming on the top of the custard.

Cover the top of the bowl with a second sheet of plastic film wrap. This will keep the custard from absorbing any odors in the refrigerator.

Place in the refrigerator to cool.

Refrigerate up to 1 week

Freeze up to 1 month

This lemon curd can be poured over a pre-cooked crust, and placed in the oven for 5 to 10 minutes.

It can be topped with a meringue, and placed under a broiler to brown the meringue.



======================================================================================================

Immersion blender: transfer the cooled custard to a deep container.

Insert the immersion blender and turn on high speed.

Begin adding the butter a couple of tablespoon at a time. Allow approximately 15 seconds between additions to allow the butter to emulsify into the custard. Keep the head of the immersion blender fully submerged to prevent incorporating air into the mixture.

After all the butter has been added, continue to process the custard to fully emulsify the butter into the custard base.

The beating process may take up to 10 minutes.

The custard will increase in volume and the color will become a pastel yellow. Do not over beat the custard. Over beating will break the emulsification.

Transfer the custard into a clean non reactive bowl (I prefer glass). Place plastic film wrap directly on the surface of the custard. Take care to ensure there are no air bubbles between the plastic film wrap and the custard. This airtight cover will prevent a skin from forming on the top of the custard.

Cover the top of the bowl with a second sheet of plastic film wrap. This will keep the custard from absorbing any odors in the refrigerator.


=======================================================================================================

NOTE ON INGREDIENTS:

Lemons: type of lemon used will determine how tart the finished lemon curd tastes. The common Eureka lemon is highly acidic, so it will produce a very tart lemon curd. I never use Eureka lemons without blending it with other citrus to reduce the acidity. My favorite combination is Eureka lemon and ruby red grapefruit.

Meyers lemons, a hybrid between a lemon and a mandarin orange has low acidity. The juice is much sweeter than the Eureka lemon. This is my lemon of choice. I will use this lemon alone, or mix it with passion fruit. I generally use frozen passion fruit concentrate, since fresh passion fruit is every experience and difficult to find. I strain the juice out of the purée. Then use the juice and a couple tablespoons of the purée.

Any other citrus juice may be substituted for the lemon juice. I’ve used grapefruit, Cara Cara oranges, navel oranges, and passionfruit.

Butter: the butterfat content is important. The higher the butter fat content the creamier and smoother it will be. A rich butter with a minimum of 83% butterfat works best.


Intensity: The intensity of flavor comes from the oil in the zest, not the juice. You control the flavor by increasing/decreasing The amount of lemon zest used.


Texture: you can make a creamier and firmer texture by increasing the amount of butter used. For a firmer and creamier curd increase the butter by 40 grams (see Austin’s version in bold).

I like the details and explanations behind steps in how you write recipes. Very good at eliminating any possible vagueness in steps or confusion.

The variations in the other ingredients is something I haven't thought about as a factor that'd affect sweetness. I can't say for how tart the lemons I get are compared to any others (tried the recipe with Meyer lemons and regular Eureka lemons), but I do use 80% butterfat butter. Since the recipe was originally from Pierre Herme, I assume it was developed using butter with 83% or even higher butterfat.

Also about the amount of butter, do you ever find the recipe overly rich? I made it with equal parts butter:egg:sugar once (e.g. 200g each eggs, butter, and sugar), and found it still sufficiently creamy. And for a tart to make it firmer, I was thinking of adding gelatin instead of more butter, since I found that with all the butter the consistency was very temperamental - it was very firm straight out of the fridge, but started melting very quickly once you cut into it. Although I never actually baked it after filling the tart shell - I figure that'll help it become more set by further coagulating the eggs. But if you baked it, wouldn't you lose some of the creamy mouthfeel by melting the butter and thereby breaking the emulsification?

 

[Norcalbaker59]

I like the details and explanations behind steps in how you write recipes. Very good at eliminating any possible vagueness in steps or confusion.

The variations in the other ingredients is something I haven't thought about as a factor that'd affect sweetness. I can't say for how tart the lemons I get are compared to any others (tried the recipe with Meyer lemons and regular Eureka lemons), but I do use 80% butterfat butter. Since the recipe was originally from Pierre Herme, I assume it was developed using butter with 83% or even higher butterfat.

Also about the amount of butter, do you ever find the recipe overly rich? I made it with equal parts butter:egg:sugar once (e.g. 200g each eggs, butter, and sugar), and found it still sufficiently creamy. And for a tart to make it firmer, I was thinking of adding gelatin instead of more butter, since I found that with all the butter the consistency was very temperamental - it was very firm straight out of the fridge, but started melting very quickly once you cut into it. Although I never actually baked it after filling the tart shell - I figure that'll help it become more set by further coagulating the eggs. But if you baked it, wouldn't you lose some of the creamy mouthfeel by melting the butter and thereby breaking the emulsification?

I guess it comes down to personal preference. I like Austin’s ratios. I use cane sugar and Plugra brand butter, which has 83% butterfat.

If your custard is melting as it warms, then you did not heat it to 180°F (82°C). When heated to the correct temperature, it will holds together. I’ve used this in a tart and it is my go to filling for cakes. I even use it as a filling layer in other desserts: lemon bars, parfaits, pie, etc. You definitely have to take it to 180°F (82°C) degrees to firm up and stay firm though.

When it goes in the oven for the meringue bake, it is only in for a few minutes. Then the meringue is caramelized under the boiler or with a torch. The cover of Austin’s cookbook in fact has a picture of mini lemon meringue tarts; Pierre Herme’s recipe is also for the same meringue topped tart in his cookbook.

 

[Cahoot]

I made shortbread again, but had a couple problems. First, I didn't mix the dough well enough after adding the flour and cornstarch, so it was still too crumbly and not homogenized when turning into the pan, and that also made it harder to smooth the top. But that's an easy fix, just mix more next time.

The second is that it definitely looks underbaked. I scaled the recipe to 250g flour (650g dough) and baked in an 8-inch square pan. Since the only square pans I have are dark non-stick, I wrapped a cake strip around it to prevent the edges from overbrowning. Also lined with parchment to use as a sling to extract the shortbread after baking. It baked at 300F for a total of 60 minutes which is way longer than the original recipe, but even then was still completely pale all around and the inside was just slightly doughy.

Would you recommend just leaving it in the oven for even longer, or increasing the temperature to 325F?

Of course the taste itself is great and the texture is sublime, absolutely melt in the mouth. Although it being underbaked did make it slightly have a "stick to the roof of your mouth" texture. It was also extremely fragile though, some pieces fell apart even when carefully handled. I will also try the "standard shortbread" recipe next time with less butter and more sugar, would be interesting to compare.

 

[Norcalbaker59]

I made shortbread again, but had a couple problems. First, I didn't mix the dough well enough after adding the flour and cornstarch, so it was still too crumbly and not homogenized when turning into the pan, and that also made it harder to smooth the top. But that's an easy fix, just mix more next time.

The second is that it definitely looks underbaked. I scaled the recipe to 250g flour (650g dough) and baked in an 8-inch square pan. Since the only square pans I have are dark non-stick, I wrapped a cake strip around it to prevent the edges from overbrowning. Also lined with parchment to use as a sling to extract the shortbread after baking. It baked at 300F for a total of 60 minutes which is way longer than the original recipe, but even then was still completely pale all around and the inside was just slightly doughy.View attachment 3394

Would you recommend just leaving it in the oven for even longer, or increasing the temperature to 325F?

Of course the taste itself is great and the texture is sublime, absolutely melt in the mouth. Although it being underbaked did make it slightly have a "stick to the roof of your mouth" texture. It was also extremely fragile though, some pieces fell apart even when carefully handled. I will also try the "standard shortbread" recipe next time with less butter and more sugar, would be interesting to compare.

@Cahoot,

You can leave it in the oven for longer at the same temperature. And don’t hesitate to put the shortbread back in the oven if it’s under baked. I do a twice baked cutout shortbread cookie. I bake my regular cutout shortbread cookie, cool it 10 minutes and then put it back for another 5 or so minutes when I want a crispy cookie to make a sandwich cookie or a crispy cookie for icing or dunking. Or if I want to use the cookies for a shortbread piecrust.

You can definitely put shortbread back in the oven with no problem.

 

[Bakergrl]

I've tried making cookies from this recipe twice and they come out brilliant!

 

[Norcalbaker59]

I've tried making cookies from this recipe twice and they come out brilliant!

Happy to hear the cookies worked out for you. I’ll be making up batches in a week or so to send to family and friends in Japan.

 

[Cahoot]

I tried out the "standard" ratios to make for New Year's and they also turned out delicious! Added a bit of orange zest and orange extract. Parents described them as "delicious but they're afraid to eat too much".

 

[Norcalbaker59]

I tried out the "standard" ratios to make for New Year's and they also turned out delicious! Added a bit of orange zest and orange extract. Parents described them as "delicious but they're afraid to eat too much".

Orange is my family’s favorite. I bake a batch to send to family in Japan every year, along with biscotti. I am glad they turned out well. Shortbread is a money maker for bakers in the UK and Canada. If you have a good shortbread recipe, you will never want for customers—especially for the holidays.

 

[ShuBunny]

First time making shortbread using your rice flour ratios. Thanks for the recipe @Norcalbaker59 !

100	9.5% protein flour (unbleached) - this is the closest I can find to your 10%.
15	Rice flour
70	Butter (President)
35	Sugar (granulated) didn't remember to use caster sugar
0.008	salt

I had a 5.5inch ring pan. Used that, scaled volume of flour to 100g.
Used butter from the fridge & a fork, but by the time I was ready to chill the dough, DDT was 78F. story of my life.
Baked at 295F for 20min, then 305F for another 15min. My oven can't do 300F.

I like the side and bottom and the taste! But the centre tasted undercooked, so I sent it back to bake for another 8mins on 305F.

But does the inside look undercooked? I actually don't know what good shortbread tastes like!

Do I need to aim for DDT of 70F for anything with butter creamed with sugar?

Has anyone tried to sub cornstarch with tapioca / potato starch? I dislike the squeaky feel of cornstarch on my teeth, looking for an alternative.

As always, thanks in advance for your replies!

Bottom

 

[Norcalbaker59]

First time making shortbread using your rice flour ratios. Thanks for the recipe @Norcalbaker59 !

100	9.5% protein flour (unbleached) - this is the closest I can find to your 10%.
15	Rice flour
70	Butter (President)
35	Sugar (granulated) didn't remember to use caster sugar
0.008	salt

I had a 5.5inch ring pan. Used that, scaled volume of flour to 100g.
Used butter from the fridge & a fork, but by the time I was ready to chill the dough, DDT was 78F. story of my life.
Baked at 295F for 20min, then 305F for another 15min. My oven can't do 300F.

I like the side and bottom and the taste! But the centre tasted undercooked, so I sent it back to bake for another 8mins on 305F.

But does the inside look undercooked? I actually don't know what good shortbread tastes like!

Do I need to aim for DDT of 70F for anything with butter creamed with sugar?

Has anyone tried to sub cornstarch with tapioca / potato starch? I dislike the squeaky feel of cornstarch on my teeth, looking for an alternative.

As always, thanks in advance for your replies!
View attachment 3551View attachment 3552View attachment 3553

Bottom
View attachment 3554

The shortbread actually looks pretty good. I cannot tell from the photo if it is actually under-baked. But it looks pretty good. If you are having problems with the butter heating up too fast, cube it, run a fork through it to loosen it up, then sick it back in the fridge to chill again before mixing the dough.

Remember that shortbread doesn’t need a lot of mixing, the butter and dry ingredients just need to come together, then gently press into your ring.

You can use rice flour in place of cornstarch. Rice flour will give is a sandier and crumblier texture, which is more tradition. Cornstarch gives it a smoother softer texture.

I’ve never used tapioca or potato starch, so I don’t know how they will work.

I prefer rice flour myself. I usually use asian brands because they are finer in texture.

Traditionally, rice flour was used, not cornstarch. Rice was introduce to Europe sometime between the 8th and 10th century (scholars can’t agree). Corn is a New World crop, so not introduced until the late 15th century.

Adding some citrus zest and drizzling the cookies with chocolate are a very nice touch.

They are easily flavored with sugars. Put a couple of tablespoons of french culinary lavender buds in a 400g of sugar. Place in an air tight container for at least 2 weeks. Sift out the lavender and use the sugar to make the shortbread with some freshly zested citrus.

Try other fresh spices like mace with orange zest; or cardamon and a pinch of cinnamon or nutmeg. Shortbread is a blank slate that will take any flavor. Don’t be afraid to play around with it.

Shortbread are very lovely with tea or coffee. They are money makers in Canada and Europe. Americans unfortunately have ruined palates that expect everything to be cloyingly sweet, so they have little appreciation for flavor in anything.

 

[ShuBunny]

If you are having problems with the butter heating up too fast, cube it, run a fork through it to loosen it up, then sick it back in the fridge to chill again before mixing the dough.

As always, you do have a suggestion for my overheated kitchen.

Thanks for explaining how the sugars can be flavoured @Norcalbaker59. I’ll give that a try when I nail this.

 

[Norcalbaker59]

As always, you do have a suggestion for my overheated kitchen.

Thanks for explaining how the sugars can be flavoured @Norcalbaker59. I’ll give that a try when I nail this.

When I use rice flour as I mentioned I always use Asian brands because they are much finer. I usually use about 15% rice flour. The cookies will develop better flavor as they sit.

Shortbread people fall into two camps, those that like the sandier texture (rice flour) and those that like the softer melt in your mouth (cornstarch). There doesn’t seem to be middle ground when it comes to shortbread.

When I was able to eat gluten I was definitely in the rice flour camp.

This is the formula I use for my cut out cookie with rice flour. You can increase the butter when you make petticoat or fingers.


Shortbread Cookie

• 100% flour
• 15% rice flour
• 75% unsalted butter
• 30% caster sugar
• .008 salt

 

[ShuBunny]

woah... sometime between my last post and sat (I fell ill on Sunday), I made another 6 short bread.
I'm with you @Norcalbaker59, #TeamRiceFlour, but everyone else seems to be #TeamStarch

Based on NorCal's percentages for cornstarch, but I have swapped tapioca starch for it.

100	9.5% protein flour (unbleached)
25	Tapioca starch
70	Butter
35	Sugar
0.008	salt

Tapioca starch seems fine in with 70% butter, and there is only a tiny hint of squeaky teeth feel during the aftertaste.

Tapioca starch with 85% butter seems problematic. Tasted undercooked. But i did not try with cornstarch & 85% butter as a comparison.
1. Could also be that I messed up the distribution of the dough before flattening it.
2. could be that I did not factor in that more butter meant longer bake time. I had to return it to oven. seemed okay on second bake.

Side shot of the 85% butter.

I need to add that all the 6-7 shortbreads were wiped out. no complaints.
So thanks to @Norcalbaker59 for generously sharing the recipe. <3

 

[Norcalbaker59]

woah... sometime between my last post and sat (I fell ill on Sunday), I made another 6 short bread.
I'm with you @Norcalbaker59, #TeamRiceFlour, but everyone else seems to be #TeamStarch

Based on NorCal's percentages for cornstarch, but I have swapped tapioca starch for it.

100	9.5% protein flour (unbleached)
25	Tapioca starch
70	Butter
35	Sugar
0.008	salt

Tapioca starch seems fine in with 70% butter, and there is only a tiny hint of squeaky teeth feel during the aftertaste.
View attachment 3565

Tapioca starch with 85% butter seems problematic. Tasted undercooked. But i did not try with cornstarch & 85% butter as a comparison.
1. Could also be that I messed up the distribution of the dough before flattening it.
2. could be that I did not factor in that more butter meant longer bake time. I had to return it to oven. seemed okay on second bake.
View attachment 3566

Side shot of the 85% butter.
View attachment 3567

I need to add that all the 6-7 shortbreads were wiped out. no complaints.
So thanks to @Norcalbaker59 for generously sharing the recipe. <3

Hahaha, I think people who enjoy more traditional shortbread love the rice flour version better. That sandy texture with the buttery cookie just hits the right feel for us.

Don’t hesitate to use lower butter shortbread dough as a tart dough, or use shortbread cookie crumbs for a cookie crust for cheesecake, cream pie, custard pie. Since shortbread is neutral, you can add other flavors to make interesting crusts.

Thanks for posting your experience with tapioca starch. I’ll have to give it a try, experimenting with amounts from 15% - 25% to see for myself.

 

[ShuBunny]

Appreciate the tip on using the shortbread dough in other ways!

I’m planning to try one with potato starch, since I have that on hand. Read in another thread where you mention prof bakers using potato starch in addition to flour for softer cake texture.

I’ll update you on that!

 

[Norcalbaker59]

Appreciate the tip on using the shortbread dough in other ways!

I’m planning to try one with potato starch, since I have that on hand. Read in another thread where you mention prof bakers using potato starch in addition to flour for softer cake texture.

I’ll update you on that!

With potato starch I would only use about 15%. I think potato starch, like cornstarch has the potential to give it an off taste and make it too soft.

 

[ShuBunny]

hey @Norcalbaker59!

since you are always going out on a limb to answer our newbie questions - i hope this is interesting for you!

i happen to have a variety of starches on hand because I was attempting asian desserts, so I unscientifically tried baking those starches at shortbread temp. 5g butter to 5g of each starch.

These pics will probably make more sense to you than me!!

1. rice flour (long grain. asian brand) 2. water chestnut flour (asian brand) 3. potato starch (asian brand) 4. sago flour (asian brand) 5. glutinous rice flour aka sweet rice flour (long grain. asian brand) 6. Tapioca flour/starch (asian brand) 7. arrowroot starch (bob's mill)

Yes, i tasted and rubbed all these between my fingers. Still alive.

Texture-wise
1, 2 & 5 when rubbed between fingers, became a smooth melty paste
4 looks rubbery, but just melted away when rubbed too. no rubbery texture. just slightly stickier
3,6,7 looks liquidy, but you can scrap at it. it's a pasty liquid.

Taste-wise
TASTE LIKE BUTTER!
hahahah...
3,6,7 have a little teeth scrappy effect. potato seems most likely to have cooked crunchy bits. I hear that starch is supposed to be tasteless - but I pick up some taste to them.
Potato tastes earthy, tapioca - dull. Arrowroot - neutral.
2 & 4 - Sago & water chestnut tasted mildly sweet, but might mess up texture too much.
1 rice actually had a more prominent taste than i expected. in fact, was the strongest tasting of the lot.
5 glutinous rice was interesting, butter seemed to be not absorbed much by it but held it shape (kinda like potato & sago) same bite like rice flour, but taste was toasty/nutty.

In a nutshell, I won't use 2, 3, 4. Might experiment with 5 & 7.

At about 5-10mins??

after 2-3 hours. i had to leave the house. it sat in a leftover warmth from oven.

 

[Norcalbaker59]

hey @Norcalbaker59!

since you are always going out on a limb to answer our newbie questions - i hope this is interesting for you!

i happen to have a variety of starches on hand because I was attempting asian desserts, so I unscientifically tried baking those starches at shortbread temp. 5g butter to 5g of each starch.

These pics will probably make more sense to you than me!!

1. rice flour (long grain. asian brand) 2. water chestnut flour (asian brand) 3. potato starch (asian brand) 4. sago flour (asian brand) 5. glutinous rice flour aka sweet rice flour (long grain. asian brand) 6. Tapioca flour/starch (asian brand) 7. arrowroot starch (bob's mill)

Yes, i tasted and rubbed all these between my fingers. Still alive.

Texture-wise
1, 2 & 5 when rubbed between fingers, became a smooth melty paste
4 looks rubbery, but just melted away when rubbed too. no rubbery texture. just slightly stickier
3,6,7 looks liquidy, but you can scrap at it. it's a pasty liquid.

Taste-wise
TASTE LIKE BUTTER!
hahahah...
3,6,7 have a little teeth scrappy effect. potato seems most likely to have cooked crunchy bits. I hear that starch is supposed to be tasteless - but I pick up some taste to them.
Potato tastes earthy, tapioca - dull. Arrowroot - neutral.
2 & 4 - Sago & water chestnut tasted mildly sweet, but might mess up texture too much.
1 rice actually had a more prominent taste than i expected. in fact, was the strongest tasting of the lot.
5 glutinous rice was interesting, butter seemed to be not absorbed much by it but held it shape (kinda like potato & sago) same bite like rice flour, but taste was toasty/nutty.

In a nutshell, I won't use 2, 3, 4. Might experiment with 5 & 7.

At about 5-10mins??
View attachment 3581

after 2-3 hours. i had to leave the house. it sat in a leftover warmth from oven.
View attachment 3582

That is interesting.

Shortbread is weaker in structure than other cookies because it has very little starch gelatinization. For starch gelatinization to happen, there has to be water. Where other cookies contain butter and eggs for water, shortbread only contains butter. With little available free water, very little starch gelatinization occurs.

Once starch gelatinization occurs, retrogradation begins. And boy, it looks like starch retrogradation happened at an accelerated rate in some of the samples. But is probably due to the long heat exposure. I don’t thing this type of retrogradation would have occurred had the cookies been left at room temperature.