Second proofing length of time for 'soft and fluffy'

[Joskin]

Hi
I want soft and fluffy baking products, e.g. donuts, nutella brioche, other bread.

how long to we proof the second time and why??

made nutella brioche a few times before. the instructions say to proof a second time for a shorter time e.g.20 min from memory. i'm unclear on why some lengths of time are short like this, while others are longer (until dough doubles). i'm referring to the second proofing time length. if our goal is soft and fluffy, isn't it better to proof the second time for longer as well - rises higher before oven, then rises even higher in the oven, means more air and is bigger, and is more soft and fluffy.

anyone get it?

 

[Norcalbaker59]

The final texture depends on protein and ash content of flour, percentage of hydration, type of yeast and/or starters, types of liquids, any added fats, added sugar, Desired Dough Temperature (DDT), bulk and proofing temperatures, percentage of humidity during proofing.

Use of bench flour in kneading, rolling, shaping, cutting will also affect final texture.

There is no set time for bulk (first rise) and proofing (second rise); it depends on the DDT and the temperature of the room or proofer where the dough will rise. Plus the factors mentioned above.

You have to test the dough to see if it is ready.




====================

Examples of different types of yeast

SAF Red: ascorbic acid*; not osmotolerant; short fermentation time; no rehydration required

SAF Blue: osmotolerant (sugar 10% - 30%); no oxidizing agent*; short fermentation time; no rehydration required

SAF Gold: osmotolerant (sugar 10 - 30%); long fermentation; no oxidizing agent; no rehydration required

SAF Premium: use 30% less yeast; short fermentation; not osmotolerant; no rehydration required; I don’t thing this one has an oxidizing agent...

SAF Active Dry: rehydrate; long fermentation; no oxidizing agent.


=================

DDT is typically 74°F (23°C) – 77°F (25°C), depends on the type of dough; it can be above this range as well.

If you did not calculate DDT, then you have no control over how fast fermentation happens. If your finished dough is above DDT, it will ferment too quickly (gas out). This produces a slack dough. You end up with a product with lower volume, flattened edges, tighter crumb, doesn’t hole is shape well.

================

Sugar feeds yeast. When it is added to a dough, whether it’s a filling or directly to the dough, the yeast will feed on it. Instant yeast is a strain of yeast that reproduces at a much faster rate than active dry yeast. So added sugar can be detrimental to the quality of dough, especially if instant yeast is ised When too much yeast develops, it quickly plows through its food source and begins to die off. The dough loses it source of CO2 and gases out. So when sugar is at 10% or more, osmotolerant yeast should be used.

============================

You might benefit from a few classes on baking fundamentals, all of the aspects I mentioned above should be covered.

 

[Joskin]

The final texture depends on protein and ash content of flour, percentage of hydration, type of yeast and/or starters, types of liquids, any added fats, added sugar, Desired Dough Temperature (DDT), bulk and proofing temperatures, percentage of humidity during proofing.

Use of bench flour in kneading, rolling, shaping, cutting will also affect final texture.

There is no set time for bulk (first rise) and proofing (second rise); it depends on the DDT and the temperature of the room or proofer where the dough will rise. Plus the factors mentioned above.

You have to test the dough to see if it is ready.




====================

Examples of different types of yeast

SAF Red: ascorbic acid*; not osmotolerant; short fermentation time; no rehydration required

SAF Blue: osmotolerant (sugar 10% - 30%); no oxidizing agent*; short fermentation time; no rehydration required

SAF Gold: osmotolerant (sugar 10 - 30%); long fermentation; no oxidizing agent; no rehydration required

SAF Premium: use 30% less yeast; short fermentation; not osmotolerant; no rehydration required; I don’t thing this one has an oxidizing agent...

SAF Active Dry: rehydrate; long fermentation; no oxidizing agent.


=================

DDT is typically 74°F (23°C) – 77°F (25°C), depends on the type of dough; it can be above this range as well.

If you did not calculate DDT, then you have no control over how fast fermentation happens. If your finished dough is above DDT, it will ferment too quickly (gas out). This produces a slack dough. You end up with a product with lower volume, flattened edges, tighter crumb, doesn’t hole is shape well.

================

Sugar feeds yeast. When it is added to a dough, whether it’s a filling or directly to the dough, the yeast will feed on it. Instant yeast is a strain of yeast that reproduces at a much faster rate than active dry yeast. So added sugar can be detrimental to the quality of dough, especially if instant yeast is ised When too much yeast develops, it quickly plows through its food source and begins to die off. The dough loses it source of CO2 and gases out. So when sugar is at 10% or more, osmotolerant yeast should be used.

============================

You might benefit from a few classes on baking fundamentals, all of the aspects I mentioned above should be covered.

Hmm... sounds very complicated.
but i feel the youtube mums out there are getting soft and fluffy donuts, bread rolls etc ,...

 

[chassis]

@Joskin achieving good results whilst baking is not easy, and follows the advice you received in the earlier post.

Soft and fluffy means fat and protein are in the recipe, for example milk, butter, oil or eggs.

Brioche is an enriched bread. It uses butter and can also include milk and eggs. Challah is similar to brioche.

Rise time is temperature dependent and is not the principle determinant of "soft and fluffy" results.

What is your view of all of this so far?

 

[Joskin]

@Joskin achieving good results whilst baking is not easy, and follows the advice you received in the earlier post.

Soft and fluffy means fat and protein are in the recipe, for example milk, butter, oil or eggs.

Brioche is an enriched bread. It uses butter and can also include milk and eggs. Challah is similar to brioche.

Rise time is temperature dependent and is not the principle determinant of "soft and fluffy" results.

What is your view of all of this so far?

rise time is also what the youtube recipe say, e.g. 30 min for second proof ... but they're self proclaimed pros, so i'm looking for brand recipes like king arthur etc, to get ideas for how and why the second proofing is as long as it is (i'll read their recipes ). looks like they proof up the second proof a fair bit with their bread rolls

for soft and fluffy, i'm thinking a properly kneaded dough as stretch makes this possible, and to maximise the second proof for most air inside . should make it most fluffy. still learning