Lining a 1/2 sheet

[Norcalbaker59]

@Cahoot

I use full size parchment sheets that I purchased from the restaurant supply store.

You’ll have to modify this when using parchment paper from a roll.

Full size sheet

Place it over the baking sheet

Align edges of parchment so wall is covered; crease parchment into pan folds

parchment should cover the pan wall

Cut away excess; I use a serrated knife

Corners will be too bulky, so need to be clipped

clip about 1” into each corner

Crisscross the corner tabs into the corners

fully lined baking sheet for cake

 

[Norcalbaker59]

I don’t know if I mentioned this already or not in our other conversations, pour the batter along the creased edges and let the batter flow toward the center.

Also in my notes: use a knife to cut through the batter to help spread. That was a tip a pastry chef taught me some years ago.

To the cake out, I place a sheet of parchment paper over the pan, then a cooling rack, then flip the pan over.

I prefer to keep parchment under all my cakes at all time, for sanitation reasons and for ease of moving the cake under a cutting board or cake lifter.

 

[Cahoot]

I should get full-sized parchment sheets then! I currently have a stack of half-sized sheets, but I'll need to restock soon anyway. I can just cut a bunch into half-sized sheets, but also I'll also still keep a few full-sized sheets for when the larger size is needed like here.

Does the cake really stick much if you don't line the sides though? In my experience with regular cake pans, even if the sides of the pan are just greased with non-stick spray, the edges of the cake will either pull away from the pan while cooling or otherwise still be very easy to loosen with an offset spatula.

 

[Norcalbaker59]

I should get full-sized parchment sheets then! I currently have a stack of half-sized sheets, but I'll need to restock soon anyway. I can just cut a bunch into half-sized sheets, but also I'll also still keep a few full-sized sheets for when the larger size is needed like here.

Does the cake really stick much if you don't line the sides though? In my experience with regular cake pans, even if the sides of the pan are just greased with non-stick spray, the edges of the cake will either pull away from the pan while cooling or otherwise still be very easy to loosen with an offset spatula.

1. It’s the corners that can be problem. you want to make sure the cake turns out without breaking apart.

2. When the pan is fully lined, you don’t get over browning and a hard dry crust on the bottom and sides. So from the end to end you have more cake to work with because in a shallow pan there will a slight rise in center. The reason you pour the batter in along the crease is for better distribution on the outer edges for a more even bake to mitigate from that slight doming.

3. Also this is a shallow cake, so keeping the sides and bottom from drying out during baking means a softer crumb and moister cake.

 

[Norcalbaker59]

@cahoots

3M Blue Painter’s Tape is a must have baker’s tool!! It MUST be painter’s tape because the adhesive is formulated for easy removal. I buy a roll specifically for kitchen use.

to hold the turntable still, wrap painter’s tape around the joint

I purchased a small non-skid area pad from the home goods store. I cut multiple size pieces to use with my turntable, to put in boxes when I am transporting cakes, etc. just make a loop with the adhesive on the outside, stick it to the mat

Stick it on to your turntable.

you can also just use tape to hold a cake board/circle to the turn table. You don’t need a mat.

never use a metal scraper it will damage your turntable. I prefer acrylic with a beveled edge.

This is what the edge looks like

This is on the 612 turntable. acrylic circle, cake board, layered filled cake, buttercream on top layer, parchment circle, acrylic circle. Cake must be centered under the two acrylic circles.

pipe buttercream on sides; The acrylic circles are 1/2” larger than the cake. You can do this same thing using cake boards instead of acrylic circles.

using the edge of the acrylic circles as a guide, I scrape around the cake and I get a perfect finish. I use a level, that is designated for kitchen use only, to ensure the cake is level and even.

 

[Norcalbaker59]

This is the brand acrylic disc and cake scraper I use. I am the round discs in every size.

Buttercream Acrylic Disks | Cakesafe

How do I determine if I need the disk sizing that I need? Use the diagram below to determine which size disk you need. The .5 Inch disks will allow for 1/4" of frosting The .25 Inch disks will allow for 1/8" of frosting The .00 Inch disks are for cakes that shrink when baked. If you bake in a 6...

www.cakesafe.com

The OG scraper has the beveled edge, the other one does not

Products — CakeSafe

twttr.conversion.trackPid('l6joe', { tw_sale_amount: 0, tw_order_quantity: 0 });

www.cakesafe.com

I don’t know if there is something similar in Canada. These acrylic tools must be hand washed.

 

[Cahoot]

@Norcalbaker59 LOVE the more detailed practical advice here. You can get general advice from many places on the Internet but it's hard to find the smaller nitty gritty information on techniques.

Before today I didn't know there was actually a difference between blue vs. green painter's tape. If I'm correct the main difference is that the green tape has a higher tack level? I have a roll of green painter's tape at home and it's what I've been using to label everything (as an aside, it's a pet peeve of mine when other family members don't label what they store in the fridge/freezer), and since the green tape also peels off very cleanly I assume it's the perfect tape for kitchen use.

Good advice on skipping metal cake scrapers by the way. I've found an acrylic cake scraper that looks good (the PME PS41-3 line) and is reasonably priced, though it doesn't appear to be beveled. However I haven't been able to find any scrapers with a beveled edge at a cheaper price so I think it'd be fine to just go with the regular edge.

 

[Norcalbaker59]

@Norcalbaker59 LOVE the more detailed practical advice here. You can get general advice from many places on the Internet but it's hard to find the smaller nitty gritty information on techniques.

Before today I didn't know there was actually a difference between blue vs. green painter's tape. If I'm correct the main difference is that the green tape has a higher tack level? I have a roll of green painter's tape at home and it's what I've been using to label everything (as an aside, it's a pet peeve of mine when other family members don't label what they store in the fridge/freezer), and since the green tape also peels off very cleanly I assume it's the perfect tape for kitchen use.

Good advice on skipping metal cake scrapers by the way. I've found an acrylic cake scraper that looks good (the PME PS41-3 line) and is reasonably priced, though it doesn't appear to be beveled. However I haven't been able to find any scrapers with a beveled edge at a cheaper price so I think it'd be fine to just go with the regular edge.

@Cahoot, you’re welcome. The green painter’s tape at work too. The adhesive on the green is a little less tacky. But it will work in the kitchen. Just just want to make sure you don’t buy a strong masking tape. Otherwise it will leave a sticky adhesive residue.

PME makes good products. i’m sure you’ll be fined with the straight edge. The most important thing is not using a metal scraper on your turntable. It will really scratch up your top.

 

[Cahoot]

This is the brand acrylic disc and cake scraper I use. I am the round discs in every size.

Buttercream Acrylic Disks | Cakesafe

How do I determine if I need the disk sizing that I need? Use the diagram below to determine which size disk you need. The .5 Inch disks will allow for 1/4" of frosting The .25 Inch disks will allow for 1/8" of frosting The .00 Inch disks are for cakes that shrink when baked. If you bake in a 6...

www.cakesafe.com

The OG scraper has the beveled edge, the other one does not

Products — CakeSafe

twttr.conversion.trackPid('l6joe', { tw_sale_amount: 0, tw_order_quantity: 0 });

www.cakesafe.com

I don’t know if there is something similar in Canada. These acrylic tools must be hand washed.

I got a set of acrylic discs from CakeSafe and tried it out for the first time. I followed their instructions, but a problem I ran into was that the cake board (directly underneath the cake itself, set on top of the bottom acrylic disc) started slipping midway into doing the final smoothing on the sides.

The instructions say that you don't need any non-slip material between the cake board and the disc, but since that turned out to not work out for me, I'm wondering what's your procedure?

I'm also wondering for the sake of conserving cake boards, do you know whether you can cut directly on the acrylic discs? If so then I'm considering just assembling the cake directly on the disc, no cake board in between. And then I could just transport the acrylic disc with the cake on it to the cake stand without worrying about having to remove the cake from the bottom disc.

 

[Norcalbaker59]

I got a set of acrylic discs from CakeSafe and tried it out for the first time. I followed their instructions, but a problem I ran into was that the cake board (directly underneath the cake itself, set on top of the bottom acrylic disc) started slipping midway into doing the final smoothing on the sides.

The instructions say that you don't need any non-slip material between the cake board and the disc, but since that turned out to not work out for me, I'm wondering what's your procedure?

I'm also wondering for the sake of conserving cake boards, do you know whether you can cut directly on the acrylic discs? If so then I'm considering just assembling the cake directly on the disc, no cake board in between. And then I could just transport the acrylic disc with the cake on it to the cake stand without worrying about having to remove the cake from the bottom disc.

NO, do not cut on the acrylic disc! You do not want to damage the disc. I love these discs! I have them in every size. And wash by hand. They are so worth the care. I use my blue tape to secure the cake board to the bottom disc. Not a large piece because you need to get that heavy cake unstuck after you are finished icing. Just make a small reverse loop and gently attach the two. To separate, I slide my offset spatula between the cake board and disc, then slide both hands under the cake to lift the cake board away and detach the piece of tape. The tape does not need to be dead center on the cake board. You just need a piece of tape close to the center and just big enough to provide some grip.

I once left an acrylic disc under a cake board. I fretted about that disc until I got it back.

 

[Cahoot]

NO, do not cut on the acrylic disc! You do not want to damage the disc. I love these discs! I have them in every size. And wash by hand. They are so worth the care. I use my blue tape to secure the cake board to the bottom disc. Not a large piece because you need to get that heavy cake unstuck after you are finished icing. Just make a small reverse loop and gently attach the two. To separate, I slide my offset spatula between the cake board and disc, then slide both hands under the cake to lift the cake board away and detach the piece of tape. The tape does not need to be dead center on the cake board. You just need a piece of tape close to the center and just big enough to provide some grip.

I once left an acrylic disc under a cake board. I fretted about that disc until I got it back.

Aha that's what I figured, just wanted to make sure to ask you first though.

The discs are honestly great. I got the 0.5" ones which end up creating a bit too much icing on the borders since my cakes shrink slightly, but I think that may be partially due to using too much non-stick spray on the cake pans. I'll try seeing if using a more conservative amount of non-stick spray will reduce shrinkage, or maybe more liquid in the formulas (which I just learned from you recently too!). I measure the internal temperatures with a ThermaPen so I know they're not being overbaked, which I know otherwise would be another potential cause for shrinkage. Which size (0.5", 0.25", 0") do you prefer?

Since as you know I'm still having trouble getting air bubble-free buttercream, the discs are the only way to get smooth sides. Without them, when I smooth the sides, scraping off the outside layer of buttercream just reveals the inside layer which has more bubbles. But with the discs, they prevent you from scraping off any icing "inside" the diameter of the discs so I can actually finally get smooth sides with enough passes.

 

[Norcalbaker59]

Aha that's what I figured, just wanted to make sure to ask you first though.

The discs are honestly great. I got the 0.5" ones which end up creating a bit too much icing on the borders since my cakes shrink slightly, but I think that may be partially due to using too much non-stick spray on the cake pans. I'll try seeing if using a more conservative amount of non-stick spray will reduce shrinkage, or maybe more liquid in the formulas (which I just learned from you recently too!). I measure the internal temperatures with a ThermaPen so I know they're not being overbaked, which I know otherwise would be another potential cause for shrinkage. Which size (0.5", 0.25", 0") do you prefer?

Since as you know I'm still having trouble getting air bubble-free buttercream, the discs are the only way to get smooth sides. Without them, when I smooth the sides, scraping off the outside layer of buttercream just reveals the inside layer which has more bubbles. But with the discs, they prevent you from scraping off any icing "inside" the diameter of the discs so I can actually finally get smooth sides with enough passes.

I use the .5 But my go to chiffon cake formula doesn’t shrink. And when I use a creamed batter, I bake in a sheet pan and cut cake circles, so the .5 works.

I worked on cake twice the last couple of days. I was playing with different mixing, trying a hybrid reverse cream and mixing in whipped egg whites. Which I actually like better than creamed with whipped egg whites, but I still need to work out a few issues in mixing in the liquids. But I think it makes more sense than a creamed batter and whipped eggs because the butter coats the flour, inviting the gluten development. Seems to produce a lighter batter than a creamed batter. But I’m still trying to figure out how to incorporate the liquid better.

 

[Cahoot]

@Norcalbaker59 Another quick question about baking in a sheet pan. Have you ever tried freezing the cut-out cake layers? I can't freeze the entire sheet since a 1/2 sheet pan doesn't fit in my freezer (barely just too wide!), but as we've discussed before elsewhere, it's so much more convenient to make cake layers in advance and freeze them.

My concern here though is that when cutting out the rounds from a sheet pan, there's no crust to protect from moisture loss, so maybe freezing the cut-out cake rounds might end up drying out the cake. I'm not sure if it may be better to just bake the sheet the day of, or possibly also bake the sheet the day before and keep wrapped at room temperature (uncut) if freezing isn't an option.

 

[Norcalbaker59]

@Norcalbaker59 Another quick question about baking in a sheet pan. Have you ever tried freezing the cut-out cake layers? I can't freeze the entire sheet since a 1/2 sheet pan doesn't fit in my freezer (barely just too wide!), but as we've discussed before elsewhere, it's so much more convenient to make cake layers in advance and freeze them.

My concern here though is that when cutting out the rounds from a sheet pan, there's no crust to protect from moisture loss, so maybe freezing the cut-out cake rounds might end up drying out the cake. I'm not sure if it may be better to just bake the sheet the day of, or possibly also bake the sheet the day before and keep wrapped at room temperature (uncut) if freezing isn't an option.

Yes I freeze cake circles. I don’t remove the top crust.

it is really important that you wrap the plastic very close to the cake, to make sure there’s no air between the plastic and the cake. bubble wrap in plastic, then wrap in foil.

I’ve kept the cake in the sheet pan and pressed plastic wrap directly onto the cake, and have refrigerated it overnight.

Normally, I don’t recommend refrigerating cake but depending on the formula. And I’ve done this in a bakery as well. Some bakery refrigerators don’t have shelves; they have brackets on the refrigerator walls; so you just slide the baking tray right into the refrigerator and hang it overnight— or in the freezer if you want.

You just don’t want to leave a cake without a crust in the freezer for weeks.

 

[Cahoot]

@Norcalbaker59 This is a question I've had about using acrylic discs for a while but never got around to asking. When it comes to removing the top disc and parchment, do you prefer to have a chilled cake or one at room temperature? From what I've seen, there are pros and cons to either method.

The manufacturer CakeSafe recommends using a room temperature cake, but the problem is that in my experience (and from what I've seen other people online say too), when you remove the top piece of parchment, it also ends up peeling off a lot of the frosting. This then forces you to re-smooth the entire top from scratch, but that inevitably pushes frostings to the edges, which makes things difficult as you don't want to touch the sides since those are already completely smoothed.

However, whenever I've used a chilled cake, you still don't get a completely smooth top after you've removed the top parchment, so you still need to do some final touches with extra buttercream. The problem here is that not only is the reserved buttercream a different consistency than the chilled buttercream on the cake, but also a different colour. I've found that chilled buttercream on the cake darkens a bit (or maybe it's the opposite, it lightens in colour, it's one of the two haha), so when you put on the reserved room temperature buttercream for the final smoothing, you get splotches on the top due to the different shades of buttercream.

Some examples of what I'm referring to below:

(Very amateur job here, acrylic discs weren't used, but I still chilled the cake before applying the final touches on the top so the splotches of different shades are still very visible)

(You can still see that the colour isn't completely homogeneous)

 

[Norcalbaker59]

@Norcalbaker59 This is a question I've had about using acrylic discs for a while but never got around to asking. When it comes to removing the top disc and parchment, do you prefer to have a chilled cake or one at room temperature? From what I've seen, there are pros and cons to either method.

The manufacturer CakeSafe recommends using a room temperature cake, but the problem is that in my experience (and from what I've seen other people online say too), when you remove the top piece of parchment, it also ends up peeling off a lot of the frosting. This then forces you to re-smooth the entire top from scratch, but that inevitably pushes frostings to the edges, which makes things difficult as you don't want to touch the sides since those are already completely smoothed.

However, whenever I've used a chilled cake, you still don't get a completely smooth top after you've removed the top parchment, so you still need to do some final touches with extra buttercream. The problem here is that not only is the reserved buttercream a different consistency than the chilled buttercream on the cake, but also a different colour. I've found that chilled buttercream on the cake darkens a bit (or maybe it's the opposite, it lightens in colour, it's one of the two haha), so when you put on the reserved room temperature buttercream for the final smoothing, you get splotches on the top due to the different shades of buttercream.

Some examples of what I'm referring to below:

(Very amateur job here, acrylic discs weren't used, but I still chilled the cake before applying the final touches on the top so the splotches of different shades are still very visible)
View attachment 4142

(You can still see that the colour isn't completely homogeneous)
View attachment 4143

@Cahoot,
prefer a chilled cake. After removing the parchment circle, fill in the divots. Then heat some water to about 150°F (65°C). Pour it into a tall heat proof container. Heat an offset spatula. pat dry on paper towels. Then gently run the spatula over the top of the cake to smooth. Reheat the spatula as needed.


After smoothing the entire top of the cake with a heated spatula chill the cake.

The icing should be uniform in color after it is chilled.

You can also use the hot spatula before filling in the divots. The smoother the cake is before you start patching it the better.

I received your email with the paper on the physics of genoise. I’ve read through half of it so far. I’ve been busy working on a negotiation settlement so I have not been able to get through the entire paper yet. When I finish reading it I will get back to you.

this cake actually looks pretty good.

 

[Cahoot]

@Cahoot,
prefer a chilled cake. After removing the parchment circle, fill in the divots. Then heat some water to about 150°F (65°C). Pour it into a tall heat proof container. Heat an offset spatula. pat dry on paper towels. Then gently run the spatula over the top of the cake to smooth. Reheat the spatula as needed.


After smoothing the entire top of the cake with a heated spatula chill the cake.

The icing should be uniform in color after it is chilled.

You can also use the hot spatula before filling in the divots. The smoother the cake is before you start patching it the better.

I received your email with the paper on the physics of genoise. I’ve read through half of it so far. I’ve been busy working on a negotiation settlement so I have not been able to get through the entire paper yet. When I finish reading it I will get back to you.

this cake actually looks pretty good.

The second picture I posted was actually after many passes with a hot spatula, it really does make a whole world of difference. I'm not sure why my buttercream changes colour after refrigeration. Maybe I'm chilling it for too long? That could also make the chilled layer of frosting on the cake too firm and interfere with smoothing out the top.

Don't feel pressured to rush through reading the paper so you can get back to me! I sent it purely for as a note of interest so you could read it at your leisure. I would still be very interested in hearing your thoughts on it when you're done though.

 

[Norcalbaker59]

The second picture I posted was actually after many passes with a hot spatula, it really does make a whole world of difference. I'm not sure why my buttercream changes colour after refrigeration. Maybe I'm chilling it for too long? That could also make the chilled layer of frosting on the cake too firm and interfere with smoothing out the top.

Don't feel pressured to rush through reading the paper so you can get back to me! I sent it purely for as a note of interest so you could read it at your leisure. I would still be very interested in hearing your thoughts on it when you're done though.

What type of food coloring and what brand are you using? I wonder if it’s the food dye.

Another method I use to fill and stack is using a cake ring and acetate collar. Place a cake board Inside a cake ring, then line with an acetate collar. Dam and fill the cake layers inside the acetate collar.

if using soaking syrup, put it on the underside of the top layer.

level the cake before icing the top.

Pipe the icing level with the top of the acetate collar on the top layer. Then use a straight edge to level even. Use the edge of the acetate as a guide. Chill. Use a hot offset spatula to smooth.

Then chill again. Remove The cake ring and acetate.

Then place a parchment circle on top then the top acrylic disc.

Secure the cake to the bottom acrylic disk and proceed to ice the sides.

yeah I find the paper quite interesting. I’ll let you know as serious as I am done reading it.

 

[Cahoot]

What type of food coloring and what brand are you using? I wonder if it’s the food dye.

Another method I use to fill and stack is using a cake ring and acetate collar. Place a cake board Inside a cake ring, then line with an acetate collar. Dam and fill the cake layers inside the acetate collar.

if using soaking syrup, put it on the underside of the top layer.

level the cake before icing the top.

Pipe the icing level with the top of the acetate collar on the top layer. Then use a straight edge to level even. Use the edge of the acetate as a guide. Chill. Use a hot offset spatula to smooth.

Then chill again. Remove The cake ring and acetate.

Then place a parchment circle on top then the top acrylic disc.

Secure the cake to the bottom acrylic disk and proceed to ice the sides.

yeah I find the paper quite interesting. I’ll let you know as serious as I am done reading it.

Those cakes didn't have any food colouring. The first picture was the honey Italian buttercream (from a while ago), and the second picture was a caramel Italian buttercream (essentially, the sugar in the syrup for the Italian buttercream is replaced by caramel powder - i.e. sugar cooked to caramel, cooled on a Silpat, then pulverized to powder in a food processor).

Could possibly be the butter that causes it to change colour in the fridge? In all the videos I've seen, their buttercream don't change colour after chilling either, so that got me curious.

Also when you assemble the cake in the cake ring before putting on acrylic discs, is it that necessary to chill the cake then use a hot spatula to smooth the top before removing the cake ring? Since you're placing acrylic discs on afterwards anyway, I figure you'll have to re-smooth the top after you remove the discs, so it wouldn't be necessary to get a completely smooth top at that stage yet.

Another question about acrylic discs that I had (sorry for all the questions!): how the heck do you transport the cake (with the acrylic boards on) off the turntable into your fridge/freezer? I set my bottom acrylic disc directly on the turntable, with just a nonstick pad (really just wet paper towel right now since I don't have a proper nonstick pad yet) in between. But when I need to move the cake to chill it before removing the acrylic discs, it's super messy because the discs are slippery from the buttercream and the fact that they're inherently acrylic, so I always feel like there's a huge chance of me dropping the cake or hitting the sides against something on the way to the fridge.

A method I've seen (example video:

) is where you put the cake directly on a slightly larger cake board and only use a top acrylic disc, so no bottom disc. That way it's easier to transport and you don't have to worry about removing the bottom disc. Have you ever tried this?