Fluffy Pure BuckWheat Bread?

[HalfMadDad]

Hi Everyone

This is my first post here and I am not much of a baker

I have two kids on the spectrum and they and my wife all have a lot of overlapping medical issues. We have a buckwheat recipe that is working for my son but my daughter is not going to try to eat it until it rises more and looks more like bread and less like bread coloured gel.

The recipe is pretty much this one we are using but we have changed it a bit

Buckwheat Chia Bread | Easy, Gluten-free, No-Knead

This best no-knead buckwheat chia bread recipe is gluten-free, yeast-free, egg-free, healthy, delicious and super quick and easy to make with 3-ingredients!

biancazapatka.com

My wife and kids do not have diabetes but I have to treat them as if they do. We cannot add any sugar or at least we can't add anything that will raise blood sugar like sugar does.

The buckwheat recipe is basically mixing chia, buckwheat groats, baking powder and yeast. We have also been able to use baking soda instead of baking powder.

My wife or I, blend it , warming it for about an hour to give the yeast a chance to act and then we bake it. It is not rising or not very much, perhaps a 10% increase in volume and I am guessing it is just the baking powder.

I am guessing that this is because the yeast does not have anything to eat. We are not using buckwheat flour and there is no sugar. If the yeast cannot eat the buckwheat groats or chia and we can't use sugar, is there anything else we might be able to use?

Do you think we could add sugar and then leave it for 5+ hours at about 30-35C to make sure the yeast has consumed it all?

Thanks for reading-Patrick

 

[Norcalbaker59]

It’s not the yeast, buckwheat flour does not contain gluten, so there is no rise. The rise is fake. The rise depends on the viscosity from the chia seeds and the grind of the buckwheat flour. If the water, sliminess of chia seeds and the buckwheat flour is just right, then it will hold together enough to expand.


I’ve been gluten-free for 12 years. gluten-free baking is a crapshoot.

 

[HalfMadDad]

Thanks Norcalbaker59 !

I think you are preaching to the choir here

I "found" a recipe for "fluffy buckwheat bread", only problem was that it was 1/3 buckwheat.

We have very violent and dangerous food reactions here and every ingredient needs careful consideration and in fact when we get the diets right, there is no violence at all. Gluten free breads from the store have dozens and dozens of ingredients. They are also are not very healthy.

I am going to look into buckwheat flat breads and see if my daughter will accept them. Thanks for stopping me from beating my head against the wall, that is what real friends do for friends

-Patrick

 

[Norcalbaker59]

Thanks Norcalbaker59 !

I think you are preaching to the choir here

I "found" a recipe for "fluffy buckwheat bread", only problem was that it was 1/3 buckwheat.

We have very violent and dangerous food reactions here and every ingredient needs careful consideration and in fact when we get the diets right, there is no violence at all. Gluten free breads from the store have dozens and dozens of ingredients. They are also are not very healthy.

I am going to look into buckwheat flat breads and see if my daughter will accept them. Thanks for stopping me from beating my head against the wall, that is what real friends do for friends

-Patrick

Have you tried working with ancient grains wheat, such as einkorn and emmer (khorasan) and using sourdough instead of yeast? Long fermentation actually breaks down the gluten.

The modern varieties of wheat are hybrids that were created in the 1960s. These hexaploid wheats have 42 chromosomes. Since their introduction there’s been a marked increase in celiac’s disease.

The naturally occurring einkorn and emmer wheats are tetraploids. They have 28 chromosomes.

The baking center where I continue to take classes is run by three internationally known bakers. They frequently bring in guest bakers from around the world to run workshops. Their focus has always been on a more natural organic approach to baking.

A couple of years ago I took a class on sourdough pasta. We made yeast water. Of course the yeast water needs to ferment, So the water we made in class we took home. The instructor had yeast water he had made ahead of time for us to use in class. We milled the einkorn flour using a home mill. Then made pasta dough. The dough we made in class needed to ferment for two days, so we took that dough home.

The instructor had einkorn sourdough he had made two days prior. So we made that into pasta. I have not eaten gluten in over 10 yrs. He also had loaves of pure sourdough einkorn bread baked by Mike Zakowski, an artisan baker in Sonoma CA, who is has a cult following among restaurant owners and residents for his ancient grain breads. Zakowski is the most unassuming baker, is known internationally for his bread baking skills, having won some of the most prestigious competitions in baking.

I taken these baking classes for years, but I never eat anything. But on this day I was very curious about the einkorn. mainly because some months earlier I had purchased a box of crackers at Whole Foods, a gluten free brand that I frequently purchase. However, I had never purchased this particular cracker before. After eating a handful of these crackers I thought the crackers texture and taste of the crackers were too much like wheat to be gluten-free. So I looked at the ingredients. It’s stated einkorn. I wasn’t familiar with einkorn, so I researched it. When I discovered it was a wheat, I waited for a reaction. Not all glutens are created equal, some can make me violently ill. Interestingly I did not get a reaction at all.

But given my medical condition, celiac that does it mean it doesn’t do damage to me.

However, a couple studies find long people tolerate bread made with sourdough and ancient grains like the emmer and einkorn. The use of commercial yeast and commercial flours is the problem with commercial and homemade bread.

If commercial flour is used, it is full of starch because commercial is milled from the endosperm of the kernel. The commercial yeast produced an exceptional amount of gas bubbles. The yeast require the bread to be baked within hours after mixing the dough. so you have this highly starchy bread, none of the gluten has broken down because the bread needs to be baked right away because commercial yeast was used, requiring the bread to be baked within hours of mixing the dough. And because commercial yeast was used, the dough is filled with an extraordinary amount of gas bubbles. So you have this loaf of bread that has no nutrients, full of starch, high in gluten, and filled with gassy bubbles. Of course it’s going to make people sick.

but ancient grain bread starts with fermented sourdough. The flour is a whole meal, or high extraction, so it is not starchy. No yeast is used; the dough is mixed and fermented for a couple of days, so the gluten breaks down. The dough rise is slowly, so not a lot of gassy bubbles.

it’s some thing you might want to research.

 

[HalfMadDad]

Wow! thank you so much again and for investing this much time in my family. We really appreciate it.

I have spent quite a bit of time researching what you are proposing and it makes a lot of sense for us. We have a grinder that we can use here and we can buy sourdough starter, einkorn and emmer.

My wife is the most reactive family member and no one really knows that is wrong with her. She dropped to 82lbs in 2017 but is mostly stable now. Her diet is extremely limited. Our daughter is the next most reactive. She actually does not react to whole grain wheat, my wife does and no parent really wants to give their kid something that makes them sick so it has been an ongoing discussion here.

Our daughter will react to sugar and All-Bran is still 1/7th sugar and we may be over fortifying her with her eating so much of it, so I am on-board with finding substitutes. It is also easy to believe what you say about the wheat industry. Monsanto has engaged in such outrageous conduct(flying helicopters in farmers fields to collect samples etc) that they have discredited themselves without any nutritional considerations.

We are north of Toronto and it is not that hard to get unusual products here and then we can always order online. Tomorrow is a holiday here(Family Day) but we will track down everything we need and will will start on Tuesday.

We also have a Whole Food nearby and we could test my wife out with some Einkorn crackers before we even get anything baked. She has no energy source in her diet so this could really have a huge impact on her life if she can tolerate them.

Thanks so much again, I don't really know how to thank you-Pat

 

[Norcalbaker59]

Wow! thank you so much again and for investing this much time in my family. We really appreciate it.

I have spent quite a bit of time researching what you are proposing and it makes a lot of sense for us. We have a grinder that we can use here and we can buy sourdough starter, einkorn and emmer.

My wife is the most reactive family member and no one really knows that is wrong with her. She dropped to 82lbs in 2017 but is mostly stable now. Her diet is extremely limited. Our daughter is the next most reactive. She actually does not react to whole grain wheat, my wife does and no parent really wants to give their kid something that makes them sick so it has been an ongoing discussion here.

Our daughter will react to sugar and All-Bran is still 1/7th sugar and we may be over fortifying her with her eating so much of it, so I am on-board with finding substitutes. It is also easy to believe what you say about the wheat industry. Monsanto has engaged in such outrageous conduct(flying helicopters in farmers fields to collect samples etc) that they have discredited themselves without any nutritional considerations.

We are north of Toronto and it is not that hard to get unusual products here and then we can always order online. Tomorrow is a holiday here(Family Day) but we will track down everything we need and will will start on Tuesday.

We also have a Whole Food nearby and we could test my wife out with some Einkorn crackers before we even get anything baked. She has no energy source in her diet so this could really have a huge impact on her life if she can tolerate them.

Thanks so much again, I don't really know how to thank you-Pat

Sorry for all my typos I use the voice to text feature on my iPhone and it misses or garbles half of what I say.

Maybe try sending an email to the customer service department at Central Milling Flours. Explain your family situation and what you’re attempting to do with bread at home. Ask if any of their ancient grain flours are available in Canada. And if not if they know any resources available in Canada.

One of the partners in Keith Giusto, It’s a fourth generation baker. His family was at the forefront of allergy free baking in the United States. Is great grandfather started a bakery in San Francisco, providing not only traditional baked goods, but also a variety of allergy free goods. Keith and his nephew operate Keith Giusto Bakery Supply, are partners with the farmers and millers in Central Milling Flours. They sell both ancient grain flours as well as the whole berries. Since they are actively involved in the international baking community, as farmers, millers, and bakers, they may be able to direct you to resources in your area.

A good blog for learning about sourdough bread is The perfect loaf. He has some recipes for 100% ancient grain bread as well.

Just an aside, his sister Pamela runs a gluten-free business called Pamela’s Products. Not a big fan her products since they are starches. She spent her life working with non-traditional baking ingredients.

Central Milling Home // Premium Flour & Grains for Professional Bakers

We are the Farmer, the Miller, and the Baker working to preserve farmland for tomorrow and to provide premium flour and grains to the bakers of today.

centralmilling.com

Keith Giusto Bakery Supply

Bakery supply store for professional and home bakers. Proud supplier of Central Milling flour and other premium ingredients.

kgbakerysupply.com

Baking Recipes | The Perfect Loaf

My list of sourdough bread baking recipes. Whole wheat, white, rye, high hydration, and everything in between. Let's get baking!

www.theperfectloaf.com

Pamela's Gluten Free Products

Pamela's Products

www.pamelasproducts.com

 

[HalfMadDad]

Thank you so much yet again.

We woke up at 2AM and our day started at 4AM. It is too early to call Central Mills Flours but I checked out their website and they have distributers all over the USA and several are very close to Toronto. I will email them or call them soon.

It shouldn't be hard to order what we need and with theperfectloaf.com, we should be able to find simple recipes and harder ones later. Central Mill Flours also has a mill for $295 which we could get later. We have been using a coffee grinder to make flour but that is not be the right tool as we are just looking to remove the outside of the grain.

Thanks again, I am so excited about this-Pat

P.S there were hardly any typos

 

[Norcalbaker59]

Thank you so much yet again.

We woke up at 2AM and our day started at 4AM. It is too early to call Central Mills Flours but I checked out their website and they have distributers all over the USA and several are very close to Toronto. I will email them or call them soon.

It shouldn't be hard to order what we need and with theperfectloaf.com, we should be able to find simple recipes and harder ones later. Central Mill Flours also has a mill for $295 which we could get later. We have been using a coffee grinder to make flour but that is not be the right tool as we are just looking to remove the outside of the grain.

Thanks again, I am so excited about this-Pat

P.S there were hardly any typos

Central Milling is one of the best flour mills in the US. They work very closely with the bakers’ because they are also the bakers. Keith, his nephew Nick, and Craig Ponsford run Artisan Baking Center at the Keith Giusto Bakery Supply distribution center. Craig and Nick have both competed at the Coupe du Monde de la Boulangerie. It’s like the baking Olympics. It only happens once every three years. International teams compete and bakers have to qualify to be on their countries team. Craig was the first non French baker to ever win gold for baguettes.

None of these bakers use commercial yeast in their breads. The training center trains professional bakers as well as hobbyists.

they work very closely with the farmers to cultivate certain varieties of wheats.

they supply the top bakeries in the country so they’re very particular about the quality of their grains. And their farmers are very loyal. A few years back the price of wheat was very high. Some of the farmers could have taken their wheat and sold it to other mills for higher prices. But they honored their agreements with central mills. Relationships are important to everyone in the supply chain.

The Mockmill is a very good brand mill. That brand would be the one I would purchase.

The two mill brands that are most popular are Mockmill and Komo. Those that have compared the two seems to like the Mockmill. I took several classes with a master baker from Germany. He mills almost all of his flour. He uses the Mockmill almost exclusively. I’ve only used mill in a classroom setting and it is the only one I’ve used. I’ve used it for both wheat and rice. Rice is very difficult to meal fine. And the Mockmill did a pretty decent job.

there’s a couple of models of the Mockmill. There’s another supplier, the Pleasant Hill grain company.


You might want to look at some reviews of the two different brands, just to see for yourself.

Mockmill 100 & 200

Mockmill 100 and 200 electric stone burr grain mills designed by Wolfgang Mock

pleasanthillgrain.com

 

[HalfMadDad]

I think I will just take your word for it and go with the MockMill

Thank you so much again

 

[ShuBunny]

@HalfMadDad just stopping by to wish you best of luck in making the right bread for your family. Hoping your wife and kiddos and you enjoy an awesome home made bread soon.

 

[HalfMadDad]

Thank you ShuBunny!

 

[Norcalbaker59]

I think I will just take your word for it and go with the MockMill

Thank you so much again

 

[Norcalbaker59]

I wish you the best of luck. 12 years ago when the doctor told me I couldn’t eat gluten anymore, I didn’t even really understand what gluten was, despite being a baker. And back then they didn’t have nutritionists to help me figure out how to feed myself. At that point I was so ill, I just stopped eating everything but raw vegetables because I didn’t know what to eat. it took me a good nine months to figure out how to feed myself. Now 12 years later I have made peace with the fact that there are some things I will never enjoy again. It took a long time for me to come to that acceptance. There are some things that don’t translate to gluten-free. And to let go, to make peace with it was a long time in coming. but I’m OK with that now, I understand there are just some things in life that I will never have again. And that’s OK

 

[HalfMadDad]

Thanks so much Norcalbaker. If it is any consolation, my wife and I have been married 17+ years and what you just wrote is decades of my wife's life and I understand both of you.

She has been sick since she was 11 and I am one of the only people(probably thee only one) that believed her. Life has left me "broadly skeptical". Whether it is shopping for food or the next political leader, things are not quite as appetizing when you read the fine details and we don't know as much as we think we know.

We have a dense week with several specialist doctor's appointments this week and products will take some time to ship but I will post back here with our successes and failures to try to give back after we have been given so much-Pat

 

[HalfMadDad]

Hi Norcalbaker

I just wanted to feedback a little.

I only just ended up getting to this today. We had a lot medical appointments, they went well but it slowed me down.

I called Central Milling and they were very helpful. There was a bad Einkorn crop and nothing met their specifications so they couldn't offer it. I bought emmer flour instead. It was about $10 USD for 5lbs. I bought 15lbs and the shipping to Toronto was about $50 USD. They provide an email address for their in-house baker to help with recipes. Pretty awesome. The lady on the phone said that I might have to mix it with different flours. We have had success with buckwheat so hopefully the two will mix together well.

Next up is ordering the sourdough starter...

Thanks again-Pat

 

[ShuBunny]

@Norcalbaker59 you might have missed this post

 

[HalfMadDad]

Thanks ShuBunny. Our Emmer flour will arrive this Friday. I am hoping to get something started over the weekend I will post back next week with some kind of results

 

[Norcalbaker59]

Thanks ShuBunny. Our Emmer flour will arrive this Friday. I am hoping to get something started over the weekend I will post back next week with some kind of results

that’s great. It does take some practice with that flour. Be patient.

 

[HalfMadDad]

Hi Guys. Just wanted to update and share. We finally received our wheat from Central Milling. They were so great, I can't recommend them enough. However Fedex has gone insane and the box was stuck for 8 days, 30 minutes away from me. I ordered gluten free sourdough starter off of Amazon and it does not seem to be working. I will order the gluten kind. I thought it was just different substrates but perhaps they are actually different bacteria.

 

[Norcalbaker59]

Hi Guys. Just wanted to update and share. We finally received our wheat from Central Milling. They were so great, I can't recommend them enough. However Fedex has gone insane and the box was stuck for 8 days, 30 minutes away from me. I ordered gluten free sourdough starter off of Amazon and it does not seem to be working. I will order the gluten kind. I thought it was just different substrates but perhaps they are actually different bacteria.

wait before you order anything, you can just make your own gf sourdough starter!!

You start with commercial yeast. But yeast is naturally everywhere in the year. And as you Feed your starter, over A half a dozen feedings, The natural yeast is going to colonize your starter.

The link below will explain how to start with gluten-free flours. King Arthur flour also has a very very brief explanation.

Just make sure you have a good Ad Blocker before looking at her website because she’s has so many ads on her site these days it’s difficult to read her content the past few years.

Gluten Free Sourdough Starter | Wild Yeast Starter

How to make a gluten free sourdough starter from scratch, step by step. Make it for love of the taste or for lack of commercial yeast. Get started today!

glutenfreeonashoestring.com