Dough sticks to hands

[Saph16]

I have baked bread for many years. I have favorite recipes and they all come out very well.
I purchased a Komo XL and am experimenting with baking with my own flour now. I am not baking sourdough, just your regular whole wheat from white or red wheat grain.
I use the same proportions as I always did, however, the dough comes out too sticky. I am trying to understand if using my own flour requires less water or more flour?

It also comes out flat after baking, but the taste is great as usual.
Would appreciate some help. Thank you

 

[Norcalbaker59]

I have baked bread for many years. I have favorite recipes and they all come out very well.
I purchased a Komo XL and am experimenting with baking with my own flour now. I am not baking sourdough, just your regular whole wheat from white or red wheat grain.
I use the same proportions as I always did, however, the dough comes out too sticky. I am trying to understand if using my own flour requires less water or more flour?

It also comes out flat after baking, but the taste is great as usual.
Would appreciate some help. Thank you

Fresh milled flour is a whole different ball game. I recently took a class in which we worked with fresh milled flour. We did not make bread, but sourdough pasta. But the principles of grinding, mixing, and kneading the dough still apply. You definitely have to make adjustments.

Freshly milled flour absorbs more water. Whole wheat flour in general absorbs more water. It’s 100% extraction meaning it includes the endosperm, the germ, and the bran. Whole wheat flour sourdough bread is made with 100% hydration.

The low rise is caused in part by the bran cutting through the gluten network during kneading.

Due to the hydration requirements and the bran cutting the gluten network, it’s best to use the stretch and fold technique rather than kneading. Stretch and fold is also a less messy way to handle the dough.

 

[Saph16]

Fresh milled flour is a whole different ball game. I recently took a class in which we worked with fresh milled flour. We did not make bread, but sourdough pasta. But the principles of grinding, mixing, and kneading the dough still apply. You definitely have to make adjustments.

Freshly milled flour absorbs more water. Whole wheat flour in general absorbs more water. It’s 100% extraction meaning it includes the endosperm, the germ, and the bran. Whole wheat flour sourdough bread is made with 100% hydration.

The low rise is caused in part by the bran cutting through the gluten network during kneading.

Due to the hydration requirements and the bran cutting the gluten network, it’s best to use the stretch and fold technique rather than kneading. Stretch and fold is also a less messy way to handle the dough.

Thank you for your response. I actually added 1/4 cup vital wheat gluten to 3 1/2 cups of flour, so I thought that that would be enough. the dough comes out too wet, so not sure that needing more hydration applies here. I should also say that I use a bread machine to knead the dough before doing another proof in the oven and then bake in a steam oven.

 

[Norcalbaker59]

Thank you for your response. I actually added 1/4 cup vital wheat gluten to 3 1/2 cups of flour, so I thought that that would be enough. the dough comes out too wet, so not sure that needing more hydration applies here. I should also say that I use a bread machine to knead the dough before doing another proof in the oven and then bake in a steam oven.

there’s no such thing as too wet with all whole wheat flour bread. Biggest mistake bakers make is under hydration. Standard for a whole wheat is is 100% hydration. It’s not uncommon for a advance baker to take it up 105% hydration.

A whole wheat loaf will always be lower in rise. And adding vital gluten is not going to do much. The bran is going to act as a razor and cut through the gluten network.

and if you’re using a bread machine you have no control over the kneading. Try making a sourdough loaf. And using the stretch and fold method. And use a blend of flours until you get the feel for it.

King Arthur flour has a recipe that uses freshly milled whole wheat and rye flour as well as they’re all purpose flour. Their education center is actually run by one of the best bread bakers in the country. A man by the name of Jeffrey Hammelman. He has A book titled, Bread A Bakers Book of Techniques and Recipe. It’s in the second edition. He’s definitely one of the most respected master bakers by other master bakers were bread is concerned. This is a no-frills book, there’s only a a few pictures in the center of the book. This is about reading and learning about bread. It’s not about being entertained.


Recipe

Fresh-Milled Miche

A crusty whole-grain loaf made with freshly milled flour.

www.kingarthurflour.com

For a step by step tutorial on creating a sourdough starter go over to the perfect loaf.

Just follow these steps and you’ll have perfect sourdough starter.

Making an Incredible Sourdough Starter from Scratch in 7 Easy Steps

A step-by-step guide to making an incredible sourdough starter from scratch in 7 easy steps. Start baking sourdough bread at home with a new yeast starter!

www.theperfectloaf.com

 

[Saph16]

Thank you @Norcalbaker59. I am looking at both references. I am not very interested in sourdough. and talking about "under hydration ", I have just the opposite problem. So that is not it. I can't make bread by stretch and fold because the reason I am using a bread machine is the arthritis in my hands. not so easy. I know I have to adjust the recipe but I need to work with what I can do.
Thanks again for your help

 

[Norcalbaker59]

Thank you @Norcalbaker59. I am looking at both references. I am not very interested in sourdough. and talking about "under hydration ", I have just the opposite problem. So that is not it. I can't make bread by stretch and fold because the reason I am using a bread machine is the arthritis in my hands. not so easy. I know I have to adjust the recipe but I need to work with what I can do.
Thanks again for your help

ahhh yes of course. Understandable with the arthritis that you would need a machine then. Try looking for a recipe then that blend the whole wheat flour with some all purpose flour. I think you might get a better result.


I’m not familiar with your mill. But try sifting out the bran and then running it back through The mill on a finer setting to grind it up and then blend it into your flou. The finer you can get the bran the better.

In making pasta the bran would have destroyed the pasta going through The pasta rollers. So this is what we did to mill the flour as finally as possible.

we were using a Mockmill 200 which produces an extremely fine grind.

 

[Saph16]

ahhh yes of course. Understandable with the arthritis that you would need a machine then. Try looking for a recipe then that blend the whole wheat flour with some all purpose flour. I think you might get a better result.


I’m not familiar with your mill. But try sifting out the bran and then running it back through The mill on a finer setting to grind it up and then blend it into your flou. The finer you can get the bran the better.

In making pasta the bran would have destroyed the pasta going through The pasta rollers. So this is what we did to mill the flour as finally as possible.

we were using a Mockmill 200 which produces an extremely fine grind.

Komo mill, I used the finest grind. the flour comes out very fine. I now understand a little more and will experiment. Thank you for your help