Danish the quick way.

[retired baker]

Watching danish videos on yutube, some call for 24 hour relaxation period.
Danish is such a very soft dough to roll, it will relax in 15 minutes after mixing.
So I made a quick batch and recorded it on my cellphone, unfortunately the phone fell and I put it back on its stand upside down.
So a section of the video shows me rolling dough on the ceiling. I proved it can be rolled on the ceiling... I think.
Anyway, the process went from ingredients to baked in 4 hours.
I had some jobs where you had no choice, you either got the product out or you were out.
This is danish , without all the drama.

 

[retired baker]

I found the missing part of the above video that was upside down, I flipped the vid .

 

[MixUp]

Am I seeing correctly that you did this with only one single chilling step between folds? In addition to the overnight dough rest, I've always gone by the rule of at least 4 folds. Fold, chill 1h, fold, chill 1h, fold, chill1h, fold, roll, shape.

From the point of hydrating flour, how many trips to the fridge or freezer were required?

If this really works with so much acceleration, I may end up giving your "rapid danish" idea a try. I never even bothered, it's so drummed in that it takes 100 days to make any pastry. Anything unique about the dough formula? Or is the fat just so sub-zero nothing melts it?

 

[retired baker]

The batch in the video was half marg, but the next batch I made with my neighbor yesterday we used all butter.
I use whatever I can get my hands on.
Once the butter is placed in the dough there are no trips to the refrigerator until all the folding is completed.
No chilling between folds required. All 3 folds are done in one shot. Takes 5 minutes even if you're slow.
I think if you insist on 4 folds the dough will not cooperate, it will need a relaxation period, you will get perfectly good danish with 3 folds so why bother.

I mix and chill the dough for 15 minutes, its only to let the dough relax, in cold weather you can leave it on the table to relax.
My kitchen was hot so... we chilled it.
I pound the butter and put it straight into the dough, no chilling of the butter once its pounded and malleable.

You can easily put 3 turns on the dough without it being chilled between folds, so I use 2 x 3 folds but for the 3rd fold I use a book fold.
Thats 104 layers of dough, if you count butter as a layer its 180. Its plenty either way you count.

Also the most recent batch with my neighbor we 3 folded the butter in.

Place the butter over 2/3rds of the dough. ( same as a typical puff dough)
Fold the bare dough over the butter then the buttered dough over the rest, so you end up with dough/butter/dough/butter/dough.
Thats way I start out with more layers compared to the typical dough/butter/dough as I did in the video here.
But either way is ok.

If you chill the dough overnite it will be tougher to roll, the CO2 strengthens the gluten. Best avoid doing that.

My neighbor , a local farmer, came to the house yesterday, he's been wanting to learn danish for a while so we made a batch, it took less than 3 hours from mixer to fresh from the oven baked.
We made this batch, good for 18-24 individuals.
1/2 pint milk
1/2 pint eggs
1 1/2 oz sugar
1/2 tsp salt
1 lb 6 oz AP flour
tbsp yeast, dry yeast is good in this.
1/4 cup veg oil or melted butter.
You can add vanilla and lemon if you want...I don't bother.., don't mix cinnamon in the dough, it stunts the yeast.

1 lb uns butter for the roll in. I use cheap butter, plugra would be a dream but I'm cheap.

Only mix until you get a dough 2-3 minutes is fine, don't develop the gluten like bread, give a quick knead on the table to make sure its mixed properly with no dry/wet spots and let it relax 15 minutes, chill or not chilled won't make a big difference in moderate temps. (60/65F). Doesn't need to be mixed to a smooth dough, the layering and folding completes the mixing.

Pound and immediately roll the butter in after the initial 15 minute rest, no resting between folds needed.
Saran the top of the dough and leave to relax 1 or 2 hrs in the cooler. Overnite is ok too but not necessary.
When you roll it out try to keep it almost 1/4 inch thick to preserve the layers, rolled too thin it will start losing layers as they get too thin they begin to contact and stick together.

I roll the dough out , 36 x 12 inch, dampen ( not wet) one half with wash and sprinkle with cinn sugar, thats how I get the cinn into the danish, fold the dough over and press with the rolling pin to even it and start cutting.
Proof at around 85F for up to 2 hrs, I push it by placing a second HOT sheetpan over the danish on the tray, like an enclosed proofer.
But a slower proof is better to prevent melting.

Once made up it freezes really well raw, eggwash before freezing then all you have to do is proofNbake.

 

[retired baker]

Am I seeing correctly that you did this with only one single chilling step between folds? In addition to the overnight dough rest, I've always gone by the rule of at least 4 folds. Fold, chill 1h, fold, chill 1h, fold, chill1h, fold, roll, shape.

From the point of hydrating flour, how many trips to the fridge or freezer were required?

If this really works with so much acceleration, I may end up giving your "rapid danish" idea a try. I never even bothered, it's so drummed in that it takes 100 days to make any pastry. Anything unique about the dough formula? Or is the fat just so sub-zero nothing melts it?

Its not "my" rapid method its just typical of bakeries, I've worked in places that did huge batches of dough and froze the slabs of dough, pull them the day before and leave in the cooler overnite, then roll it the next day.
I can't emphasize enough how culinary schools don't teach how to bake, they teach how to teach.
Some schools have really good bakers too, but they're constrained.

 

[MixUp]

No overnight. No chills between folds. 3-4 hours BAKED?! That's remarkable! I've never heard of danish done so fast. Though cutting it to 3 folds surely helps. This method is something I absolutely must try. I'm a fan of cutting every corner for time and effort when it still yields good results. Plus I lack fridge space (I say as a I have a dough bucket in there eating half the space...)

I can't think of any bakeries that would actually use Plugra. All butter absolutely. Plugra, no. Well, maybe the French guy. His last shop was in Paris. If the random school teachers in France can critique our top chefs, imagine what it takes to own a bakery in Paris.... The only thing I ever use Plugra for is savory, and particularly working over griddles/hottops. It makes a difference. It doesn't smoke off as much as "wax butter".

My only fear with this method is the pounding. My tables (and floors) probably won't withstand that with chilled butter.

The technique for the butter I'm familiar with has always been to basically "cream" butter and flour and to roll that out into a sheet, then chilling it, rather than just pounding out the butter directly.

Haha, maybe you didn't invent the technique, but I've yet to see it implemented. Well not with scratch bakeries anyway. Supermarkets just pull it out of a mix and laminate it with amazon boxes or something. I've always heard the refrain of chilling and waiting. Though it was always with 4-6 turns which might make some of that difference.

Very interesting to hear your take on culinary schools. I think that applies to schools in general, but yeah, that's my take. The guy I learned a lot of this stuff from back in the day that I almost bought the shop from when he retired would say that he couldn't really teach that much and that culinary schools could teach so much. He was very modest. One could learn more from him in a day than one could learn in a school in a year. This reminds me of that.

 

[retired baker]

No overnight. No chills between folds. 3-4 hours BAKED?! That's remarkable! I've never heard of danish done so fast. Though cutting it to 3 folds surely helps. This method is something I absolutely must try. I'm a fan of cutting every corner for time and effort when it still yields good results. Plus I lack fridge space (I say as a I have a dough bucket in there eating half the space...)

I can't think of any bakeries that would actually use Plugra. All butter absolutely. Plugra, no. Well, maybe the French guy. His last shop was in Paris. If the random school teachers in France can critique our top chefs, imagine what it takes to own a bakery in Paris.... The only thing I ever use Plugra for is savory, and particularly working over griddles/hottops. It makes a difference. It doesn't smoke off as much as "wax butter".

My only fear with this method is the pounding. My tables (and floors) probably won't withstand that with chilled butter.

The technique for the butter I'm familiar with has always been to basically "cream" butter and flour and to roll that out into a sheet, then chilling it, rather than just pounding out the butter directly.

Haha, maybe you didn't invent the technique, but I've yet to see it implemented. Well not with scratch bakeries anyway. Supermarkets just pull it out of a mix and laminate it with amazon boxes or something. I've always heard the refrain of chilling and waiting. Though it was always with 4-6 turns which might make some of that difference.

Very interesting to hear your take on culinary schools. I think that applies to schools in general, but yeah, that's my take. The guy I learned a lot of this stuff from back in the day that I almost bought the shop from when he retired would say that he couldn't really teach that much and that culinary schools could teach so much. He was very modest. One could learn more from him in a day than one could learn in a school in a year. This reminds me of that.

You can cream the butter but you still have to make it malleable after it comes out of the cooler, theres no way around it.
Soft doesn't work, cold but malleable is the only way to get all the folds on it.
I worked in a coffee shop, starbux type place , I had to go outside to pound the butter because of noise, did it on the loading dock on a sheet of cardboard, parchment paper and flour.

 

[MixUp]

You can cream the butter but you still have to make it malleable after it comes out of the cooler, theres no way around it.
Soft doesn't work, cold but malleable is the only way to get all the folds on it.
I worked in a coffee shop, starbux type place , I had to go outside to pound the butter because of noise, did it on the loading dock on a sheet of cardboard, parchment paper and flour.

Usually after creaming the butter it would be shaped into sheets while still malleable, and chilled in that state, so it can just be plopped on the dough as-is later. A lot slower than your method though! That pounding though.....I'd need a new dowel pin. Or a mallet. Or a brick and some parchment. And new tables/floors. That's still the big setback. I have to give this method a go at some point though! Maybe next year, I have a line of stuff to do first! I'd try it next if I weren't also doing Easter bread.

I noticed you used AP rather than pastry flour. That's interesting! Bleached or unbleached?

Ooh, a cafe that has an actual baker making actual pastry?! That sounds like my kind of place! That's a rare animal. Most of them just buy the pastry from manufacturers, or at best, have a supermarket type "bakery" from mixes.

 

[MixUp]

You can cream the butter but you still have to make it malleable after it comes out of the cooler, theres no way around it.
Soft doesn't work, cold but malleable is the only way to get all the folds on it.
I worked in a coffee shop, starbux type place , I had to go outside to pound the butter because of noise, did it on the loading dock on a sheet of cardboard, parchment paper and flour.

The more I think about this, the more I think I'm going to have to give this method a try this weekend. It's gnawing at me to see how it goes.

Despite the Premium super-yeast, I ordered some Gold. I'm sure Premium can do ok, but the osmotolerant Gold is meant for pastry doughs and high enrichment specifically, and I was going to need some for the Easter breads anyway. It should keep proofing on the shorter side of the timer. Right tool for the job and all that. What dry yeast did you use above?

I think I'm going to have to mingle your method with the methods I'm familiar with though regarding the butter. There's really no way I can pound out the hard butter like that with any of the surfaces I have available. I don't think there's a need to cream the butter specifically. I'd forgotten the creaming with flour was more geared toward reverse pastry with the butter outside....I think most of what I was familiar with was reverse to hold up to fillings better (and 4-6 folds, chill between each turn, blah blah blah.) I'm going for fast & easy here. 3 hour danish. What I'm thinking of doing is folding a half sheet of parchment or just some plastic wrap and sandwiching the butter between it. Letting it soften at room temp. Then roll it out in the parchment, and wrap it up for the next day same as with the creamed & shaped butter. Should take 5 min of actual work. It'll still be stiff the next day but gently pounding already flattened sheets of butter isn't as troublesome as hammering down a pound as a block. Rolling in plastic (and any fats touching plastic wrap) are kind of a mess, so I figure the parchment keeps it cleaner & tastier.

I do have one possible issue though: I don't have as much rolling space as you have for the process. I have a 16.5x23" board. Ideally it ought to be kept smaller than the edges. Other than being more work do you see any real issues with dividing that dough in 2 and rolling it out twice? The only alternative would be to fold it at twice the thickness. Many problems can be worked around, but lack of physical board space can't be worked around. Plus, my proofer only fits 2 quarter sheets so I can probably only proof 8 at a time unless I'm proofing at room temp without humidity.

If I do 2 slabs I'd only need to make a sheet from 2 sticks of butter at a time, as well, which might simplify that.

Also, 1/2pt eggs - I assume about 4lg? Or do you still get liquid eggs, or using reconstituted powdered eggs? I miss powdered eggs. Prices have really skyrocketed on that stuff.

 

[retired baker]

I used fleischmans rapid rise bread machine yeast. Just toss it in the mixer with flour.
You can always just make a half batch, 12 danish.
Try freezing some raw, it comes back perfectly.
Half a pint of egg was 6 medium, they look a bit small to me, package says large eggs, I don't think so.

I make reverse puff dough the same way, pound each lb of butter and stack them up, then pound and roll them out into a large rectangle.
Plugra worked a lot better than cabot. When I pound out regular butter I can feel the water drops hitting my arm. Plugra is dry.

 

[MixUp]

I used fleischmans rapid rise bread machine yeast. Just toss it in the mixer with flour.
You can always just make a half batch, 12 danish.
Try freezing some raw, it comes back perfectly.
Half a pint of egg was 6 medium, they look a bit small to me, package says large eggs, I don't think so.

I make reverse puff dough the same way, pound each lb of butter and stack them up, then pound and roll them out into a large rectangle.
Plugra worked a lot better than cabot. When I pound out regular butter I can feel the water drops hitting my arm. Plugra is dry.

Oh, Rapid Rise. I don't know how the differences will affect my proofing times per quantity, but I should definitely back off the yeast a bit. Instant gets going a little slower, but the stuff is a lot more potent overall. The osmotolerant one (if it arrives in time) should get going pretty fast in this dough.

I might make a half batch, but then I have a lone quarter sheet in the proofer. Better to do it at once, make a whole batch, but fold in 2, and keep half in the fridge overnight....it can do the extended chill and give 2 days of fresh danish.

OR I wonder how the Gold yeast would handle a cold room temp proof (65 or so). They say it prefers warm, but Premium rises in a cold room almost instantly, and Gold shouldn't be far behind. I suppose I could skip the proofer and just load up the half sheets and let them proof on the cooling racks. My first limitation is the pastry board limits my rolling length. My second limitation is the proofer fits only 2 quarter sheets at a time (so I assume only 8 danish at a time, unless i can find a way to cram 6 danish on a quarter sheet for proofing without connecting. Parchment couche....) The proofer adds humidity too, though, so I prefer using it where I can. It's small, but performs great.

Every supplier of powdered whole eggs I know of (short of $350+ huge boxes) is out of stock for weeks. I really prefer using powdered for this kind of stuff since it keeps it highly consistent. Nothing worse than messing with "medium, large, eggs" I always come up short of the alleged volume or mass of eggs when specified as normal eggs. Liquid is available but too expensive if not buying real bulk. Powdered is pricy too, but comes with the side benefit of being pasteurized by nature so you can throw them in meringues without worry. I prefer whole eggs for things like pasta where it's the main part of the hydration with some makeup water, but I'm wishing I didn't have to mess with it for this. I used to keep cans of whole, white, and yolk around. Stuff is like $40 a can now. it was $18 when I last bought.

Oh, what temp and time did you bake this dough at?

 

[retired baker]

Theres nothing wrong with adding makeup water in danish dough, its just dough.
I've never seen powdered egg, that would be handy to have on hand.
A rule of thumb is you can bake almost anything containing sugar at 350 up to 375.
I never time bake, just lift it up and look at the bottom.
If its not black, put it back.

 

[MixUp]

Powdered egg can vary in quality, but in general I love the stuff. Some things don't turn out quite the same, but most things benefit overall from the consistency. Always the same amount of egg, easy to use, mix with dry 3:1 water. Not cheap though. Bottled egg is the best all around, but powdered is the best best thing. Shell eggs are great for painting, poaching, and sunny side up..... But i hate dealing with them and their inconsistency for baking.

It's weird. EVERY vendor is out until mid March. All of them. 2oz bags. 50# bakery boxes. All of it. Is it all made in the same factory and they ran out or had a recall? I used to use Honeyville. They sell 4# cans and 50# bakery wholesale. Prices are rough...$53 or so a can now. $475 for boxes, better at wholesale pricing. Then again the 4#can is like 96 eggs.... They repackaged the small cans since then as prepper storage, but it's the same thing as the bakery boxes. But.... Out of stock.... Like everyone else.

I've used it in everything from cake to cookies to cinnamon buns and pastry. I don't use it in creams and custards. Perception that since that liquid form it won't have the right consistency, but it's probably fine. I don't use it in pasta since egg is most of the very limited hydration and dough consistency is temperamental to begin with. It's great to add egg in a dry premix otherwise.

I never compared if it's better or worse than the real deal but texture and taste was always fine, and batch consistency is always worth it if you don't have bottled egg.



I like to time bake to a point. I set the timers about 8 min before average so i don't forget to check. From there I go visual + thermapen.

 

[MixUp]

So I decided to give your danish method a go after all. It was a tremendous success, and I have to say I'm pretty amazed that the result turned out so well with a mere 3 turns! I'd have not believed it had I not seen it. Yeah, it's not quite what 4-6 turns does. Maybe a bit more "bready", but very quality results, and makes making home pastry a lot more practical.

I did make some alterations. Namely I went half-way between your accelerated method of butter pounding, and traditional creaming & chilling of butter and flour sheets: I rolled out the butter the day before from a softened state, didn't cream it with flour, just rolled it and and chilled it in 2 sheets. No pounding via that method, just rolling. I did it in plastic wrap, but I think I'd do it in parchment in the future, then wrap either the whole parchment pack in plastic, or take the butter sheet out of parchment to wrap. The plastic wrap forms bubbles in the wrap as you roll that pop and allow butter to ooze out onto the pin/board. I did divide the dough in two to roll 2 separately. Essential for my board size.

I made the whole batch into 16 large-ish danish rather than 18-20, simply to fit available equipment. The proofer fits 8 on 2 quarter sheets and I couldn't cram more. 2 waves in the proofer is easier than 2.5 waves in the proofer. I might buy a second proofer eventually to just do one simultaneous wave...though I'm not sure where I'd put it. It's kind of a pain waiting to proof 2 batches separately. I accellerated the second batch at 88F while the first batch was cooking. It turned out ok that way, but was stressful and not ideal micromanaging it.

The only thing I'd like to tweak and improve is the cardamom layer (No cinnamon for me. What can I say, I learned from the Scandinavians!) I'm used to it being in the dough and being well distributed. Putting it between the last layer on the egg wash leads to a cardamom thread through the twist that's overpowering, and, from a presentation perspective, can look like mold to see greenish-blackish power in concentrations your pastry. Maybe getting it into 2 folds, or just putting it in the dough after all is the way to go.

I also added the white glaze drizzle as well. May not be very European, but it's "traditional" from my perspective. I don't add butter. "It won't harden without butter". Never understood that. It's powdered sugar. It hardens.

But it was otherwise a pretty straight shot through it with, indeed, less "drama". I might do the overnight chill of laminated dough in the future, just so I'm not waiting around between steps, but without an hour between each fold, it's fantastically simple. Bakes up beautifully (about 18 min in the convection oven at 345 for anyone following along.)

This definitely opens me up to doing all sorts of pastries at home. It makes it easy as pie. Well, ok, still harder than pie.


The one gaffe I did have: What flour do you use? I used KAF, but I don't think it's flour related. They were out of L eggs so I bought XL eggs. I hate eggs in shells for baking! The 4 XL eggs came up to EXATLY 1/2pt as proscribed...I was thrilled! But the resulting dough was ultra sticky and slack. It was like working with ciabatta dough. I had to handle it with wet hands (flour did nothing), and could NOT get what stuck to my hands off of me. I kneaded more flour on the hook for a while...that wasn't doing it, so I dumped a bunch of flour into the bowl and kneaded it in by hand until it was still too sticky for danish but mostly workable. I definitely overworked the gluten to salvage it, but no harm came to the finished pastry, and once it picked up some flour from the board and pin, things worked a lot more naturally, thankfully! One biproduct of that is that the "tails" from the coils unraveled a bit in the oven....I should have dampened them to seal them - a problem I corrected for the second batch. Next time I'll have the right eggs, but might also add flour to the batch at the start.

 

[retired baker]

So I decided to give your danish method a go after all. It was a tremendous success, and I have to say I'm pretty amazed that the result turned out so well with a mere 3 turns! I'd have not believed it had I not seen it. Yeah, it's not quite what 4-6 turns does. Maybe a bit more "bready", but very quality results, and makes making home pastry a lot more practical.

I did make some alterations. Namely I went half-way between your accelerated method of butter pounding, and traditional creaming & chilling of butter and flour sheets: I rolled out the butter the day before from a softened state, didn't cream it with flour, just rolled it and and chilled it in 2 sheets. No pounding via that method, just rolling. I did it in plastic wrap, but I think I'd do it in parchment in the future, then wrap either the whole parchment pack in plastic, or take the butter sheet out of parchment to wrap. The plastic wrap forms bubbles in the wrap as you roll that pop and allow butter to ooze out onto the pin/board. I did divide the dough in two to roll 2 separately. Essential for my board size.

I made the whole batch into 16 large-ish danish rather than 18-20, simply to fit available equipment. The proofer fits 8 on 2 quarter sheets and I couldn't cram more. 2 waves in the proofer is easier than 2.5 waves in the proofer. I might buy a second proofer eventually to just do one simultaneous wave...though I'm not sure where I'd put it. It's kind of a pain waiting to proof 2 batches separately. I accellerated the second batch at 88F while the first batch was cooking. It turned out ok that way, but was stressful and not ideal micromanaging it.

The only thing I'd like to tweak and improve is the cardamom layer (No cinnamon for me. What can I say, I learned from the Scandinavians!) I'm used to it being in the dough and being well distributed. Putting it between the last layer on the egg wash leads to a cardamom thread through the twist that's overpowering, and, from a presentation perspective, can look like mold to see greenish-blackish power in concentrations your pastry. Maybe getting it into 2 folds, or just putting it in the dough after all is the way to go.

I also added the white glaze drizzle as well. May not be very European, but it's "traditional" from my perspective. I don't add butter. "It won't harden without butter". Never understood that. It's powdered sugar. It hardens.

But it was otherwise a pretty straight shot through it with, indeed, less "drama". I might do the overnight chill of laminated dough in the future, just so I'm not waiting around between steps, but without an hour between each fold, it's fantastically simple. Bakes up beautifully (about 18 min in the convection oven at 345 for anyone following along.)

This definitely opens me up to doing all sorts of pastries at home. It makes it easy as pie. Well, ok, still harder than pie.


The one gaffe I did have: What flour do you use? I used KAF, but I don't think it's flour related. They were out of L eggs so I bought XL eggs. I hate eggs in shells for baking! The 4 XL eggs came up to EXATLY 1/2pt as proscribed...I was thrilled! But the resulting dough was ultra sticky and slack. It was like working with ciabatta dough. I had to handle it with wet hands (flour did nothing), and could NOT get what stuck to my hands off of me. I kneaded more flour on the hook for a while...that wasn't doing it, so I dumped a bunch of flour into the bowl and kneaded it in by hand until it was still too sticky for danish but mostly workable. I definitely overworked the gluten to salvage it, but no harm came to the finished pastry, and once it picked up some flour from the board and pin, things worked a lot more naturally, thankfully! One biproduct of that is that the "tails" from the coils unraveled a bit in the oven....I should have dampened them to seal them - a problem I corrected for the second batch. Next time I'll have the right eggs, but might also add flour to the batch at the start.

I just made a batch tonite, dough was sloppy so I added another half cup of flour and it picked up fine, not stupid sticky , its important to observe the mixing intently and adjust very early in the mixing to prevent over mixing into a rubbery mass.

Keep the tail in place by tucking it underneath the dough and slap it down to stick it in place.
I will proof this batch by putting it on a half sheetpan and covering with a bus bucket, a cup of boiling water mild steam steam.

Debating whether to roll it tonight or go to sleep, its already midnite but I'm on coronavirus time.
Hunkered down in the cold north, theres only 1 person with the virus in Maine. But I'm in the danger group, older, heart failure , bad lungs and recovering from cancer surgery. What me, worry ?

 

[retired baker]

Oh yeh, watch out putting spices directly into a dough, some can kill yeast, cinnamon will kill yeast for sure.
Thats why they spiral it into pepperidge farm raisin bread.

To prevent icing drying up and falling off just make some simple syrup and brush it on as it comes out of the oven, the heat drives the water off and leave a sticky surface, then drizzle with icing after it cools and it will not fall off when dry.
But you have to get the syrup on them the instant they come out of the oven, sizzling hot.
Syrup can be cold....doesn't matter one way or the other.

 

[MixUp]

I just made a batch tonite, dough was sloppy so I added another half cup of flour and it picked up fine, not stupid sticky , its important to observe the mixing intently and adjust very early in the mixing to prevent over mixing into a rubbery mass.

Keep the tail in place by tucking it underneath the dough and slap it down to stick it in place.
I will proof this batch by putting it on a half sheetpan and covering with a bus bucket, a cup of boiling water mild steam steam.

Debating whether to roll it tonight or go to sleep, its already midnite but I'm on coronavirus time.
Hunkered down in the cold north, theres only 1 person with the virus in Maine. But I'm in the danger group, older, heart failure , bad lungs and recovering from cancer surgery. What me, worry ?

Ouch! Well, you picked a great time to get out of the bakery business.....hospitality is going to get decimated in a space of a few weeks. We'll be left with Olive Garden and Panera forever and ever. The food might kill you before the plague does. Though on the bright side, retail bakery may come back in fashion as full service unravels. Unless we get to Italy-style wartime lockdown. I hear a lot of bakers are looking into delivery. Sure ,because if you couldn't make money on a $6 loaf of bread before, delivering will be in budget!

Anyway, I gave another batch a try over the weekend, though a slightly (slightly) more traditional process. Did it as a 3 day spread. Day 1 roll the butter sheets (parchment works much better than plastic), day 2 make the dough and laminate, day 3 proof, shape, fill & bake. I forgot I gave it an overnight refrigeration and was a bit dumbfounded to find my dough inflated in the plastic wrap like a balloon the next day. I think it definitely improved the flavor though.

You'll find my one blunder humorous: My pastry board isn't big enough for the whole slab so I divide into 2, and do 2 1/2lb butter sheets. So I rolled the first one, grabbed the second butter sheet from the fridge, and wondered where the other doughball was before realizing I forgot to divide it. I rolled half the butter into the whole dough batch. So, the only way to fix it was to roll it back out and fold the other sheet into the whole dough......rolled it out again and did 3 more folds. The stuff was like a rubber sheet and barely rolled anywhere. But I got the butter in, a few patch jobs here and there. That's SIX turns without refrigeration or rest. I would not have thought it possible. It barely was.

Result turned out fantastic though. Probably better. That's got to be....I don't even know how many layers. Comes out to 6 folds for half the butter, 3 folds for the other half.! (I did divide for the final rolling/seasoning/shaping day 3.)

The dough does come out soupy without some more flour...not sure how much I added this time, I just dumped it from the bag until it was "right."

That's an interesting trick about the syrup! Not sure if I'll do it. It might not really save any effort from doing the drizzle fresh daily. It's only after a day that it gets too crumbly (even then it only falls off if abused.) I can live with ruined icing on the day olds. Hardening is fine. When it gets soggy and just soaks into the dough is when it's not fine. I just make annoyingly thick icing and it's fine

 

[retired baker]

Ouch! Well, you picked a great time to get out of the bakery business.....hospitality is going to get decimated in a space of a few weeks. We'll be left with Olive Garden and Panera forever and ever. The food might kill you before the plague does. Though on the bright side, retail bakery may come back in fashion as full service unravels. Unless we get to Italy-style wartime lockdown. I hear a lot of bakers are looking into delivery. Sure ,because if you couldn't make money on a $6 loaf of bread before, delivering will be in budget!

Anyway, I gave another batch a try over the weekend, though a slightly (slightly) more traditional process. Did it as a 3 day spread. Day 1 roll the butter sheets (parchment works much better than plastic), day 2 make the dough and laminate, day 3 proof, shape, fill & bake. I forgot I gave it an overnight refrigeration and was a bit dumbfounded to find my dough inflated in the plastic wrap like a balloon the next day. I think it definitely improved the flavor though.

You'll find my one blunder humorous: My pastry board isn't big enough for the whole slab so I divide into 2, and do 2 1/2lb butter sheets. So I rolled the first one, grabbed the second butter sheet from the fridge, and wondered where the other doughball was before realizing I forgot to divide it. I rolled half the butter into the whole dough batch. So, the only way to fix it was to roll it back out and fold the other sheet into the whole dough......rolled it out again and did 3 more folds. The stuff was like a rubber sheet and barely rolled anywhere. But I got the butter in, a few patch jobs here and there. That's SIX turns without refrigeration or rest. I would not have thought it possible. It barely was.

Result turned out fantastic though. Probably better. That's got to be....I don't even know how many layers. Comes out to 6 folds for half the butter, 3 folds for the other half.! (I did divide for the final rolling/seasoning/shaping day 3.)

The dough does come out soupy without some more flour...not sure how much I added this time, I just dumped it from the bag until it was "right."

That's an interesting trick about the syrup! Not sure if I'll do it. It might not really save any effort from doing the drizzle fresh daily. It's only after a day that it gets too crumbly (even then it only falls off if abused.) I can live with ruined icing on the day olds. Hardening is fine. When it gets soggy and just soaks into the dough is when it's not fine. I just make annoyingly thick icing and it's fine

Theres an optimum number of folds beyond which layers become too thin and the dough layers have no fat to keep them distinct.
Not enough folds makes it cakey, too many does the same.
I find the same with croiss dough, 3x 3 folds is plenty.

 

[MixUp]

Theres an optimum number of folds beyond which layers become too thin and the dough layers have no fat to keep them distinct.
Not enough folds makes it cakey, too many does the same.
I find the same with croiss dough, 3x 3 folds is plenty.

4-6 was always the standard I'd heard in the past. Thankfully this batch turned out great, though I imagine if it were croissant it wouldn't be quite right. I was stunned it was salvaged though. 6 folds WITHOUT rest or refrigeration I feared would ruin it. But it really is perfect texture. Not sure I'd try that again though. Working that dough was quite challenging.

 

[retired baker]

4-6 was always the standard I'd heard in the past. Thankfully this batch turned out great, though I imagine if it were croissant it wouldn't be quite right. I was stunned it was salvaged though. 6 folds WITHOUT rest or refrigeration I feared would ruin it. But it really is perfect texture. Not sure I'd try that again though. Working that dough was quite challenging.

imagine not folding the dough but just continuing to roll it out.
if you start with 1 sq foot , adding butter usually doubles the surface area to 2 sq ft.
a 3 fold triples it to 6 sq feet. A second 3 fold makes it 18 sq feet and the third time makes 54 sq feet surface area.
Thats bigger than a super king size mattress 8 feet by 7 feet. The dough/butter lamination is getting kinda thin.

You got away with 6 folds because butter was introduced at a later stage, so the butter layers were not as thin.

Only half the butter was folded 6 times. Its a slack dough, tolerant to processing.
When the rolling hits the wall and won't go any further a few minutes rest on the table is all it needs.
A smoke break and its ready to go.... Less drama makes better bakers.